Wow-Dressage

Discussion in 'Horse Chat' started by LoveTrail, Jan 23, 2018.

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  1. slc

    slc Senior Member

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    It isn't about 'feeling like a beginner', it's about BEING a beginner. At that level. Literally. That is truly what happens.

    It's not about me 'feeling' like a beginner when I move up. it's about every single rider BEING a beginner - when they move up to that level. More power, more impulsion, the person cannot sit elegantly, hold his hands still, keep his legs from swinging.

    There is a certain amount of this that no rider can help. Moving up to FEI, a person is just not going to look so great.

    That is PART of what is seen with this rider. Incompetence. Inexperience. Big strong horse.

    BUT....being a beginner at FEI has nothing to do with smacking the horse.

    That's about the person's character - inability to deal with the frustrations everyone else has and deals with quietly and with respect shown to the horse, respect for their trainer, respect for the sport.

    Again, as I have said over and over, there are two issues going on.

    One is her incompetence, the other is her temper.

    Incompetence(lack of technical strength and skill + lack of experience), leads to buying such a big-moving international horse. Incompetence leads one to sign up for a show when one is not ready. Incompetence leads one to sign up for the wrong classes.

    Smacking the horse, spurring the horse, yanking the reins when all of those incompetent decisions come to a head? That's temper. That's her problem.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  2. slc

    slc Senior Member

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    What would I have done differently? Not buy her that horse for one. He's too big. Too big a body, too big a mover, too highly trained - too much horse.

    But even with an appropriate horse, a very easy schoolmaster say, you're still looking at riding at 1st, 2nd, 3rd level at shows for - years. Yeah, years. For most people. For her, for sure.

    And this person, obviously, can't handle any pressure. Anything goes wrong, she just crumbles and gets mad. She'd be a tough student to deal with IF she's like that all the time. Maybe she's not like this all the time. God, I hope so.

    Many people only get that way at shows, and quite often, there's nothing you can do with someone like that.

    Many younger people get that way in lessons. I've seen instructors yank kids off horses over and over, and send them home. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.

    Often, the trainer attempts to take them to small shows, put them in easier classes like equitation where they're not alone in the ring and don't have to ride a test, ride the horse in a couple classes for them first so the horse is a little tired when the student gets on, and easier to ride....there are a lot of ways a trainer can attempt to deal with it if the student constantly crumbles any time something doesn't go right. There are drugs a person can take, too.

    In most cases, when someone gets mad while riding, it goes back to - character and personality sure, but also, incompetence. And that can, in fact, be an impossible 'vicious cycle' with some people.
     
  3. ChestersMomma

    ChestersMomma Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Okay sure... but a beginner Grand Prix rider does not ride like a flopping fish with spikes on their heel. They ride like they have just begun to ride Grand Prix but are pretty good at Intermediare II.

    Beginner AT THAT LEVEL means you should at least be competent at the level before. This woman... is simply not. There are requirements for training level tests that she cannot meet.

    The argument that when you move up a level, you become a true blue beginner again and therefore may make egregious, borderline abusive riding errors on a national stage simply does not hold water.
     
  4. ChestersMomma

    ChestersMomma Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not saying she's Grand Prix... just using an example.
     
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  5. slc

    slc Senior Member

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    That is not an argument I or anyone else ever tried to make.

    I am quite forgiving of those people who are trying to move up. I have no problem with the expected amount and type of incompetence that comes with trying to move up. I understand it's hard. Anyone who's done it understands that. I've seen the internet tear people apart unfairly simply for being part way on that journey to perfection, but the fact remains, we're all partway on that journey. SO, join hands, kumbayah, hakuna mattata.

    But the sad and inescapable fact is that MOST people attempting to move up, DON'T show at Del Mar until they're doing better, if that ever happens, DON'T lose their temper at home OR at a show, DON'T sit there and smack the horse because of their own weakness, and most of all, DO have some plain simple common sense that when a ride is going to hail in a bucket, IT'S TIME TO JUST GET OFF. Don't sit up there and make a spectacle of oneself, irritate the horse, and shame the sport, their trainer and everyone else there.

    No, I am not going to sit here and say the woman is a succubus from the underworld, that she should be ridden with a razor in her mouth, or pulled apart by wild lions, salted and buried in an unmarked grave. For that, y'all want to crucify me, you go right ahead. I think all this talk about how evil she is, is pointless. That's just 'the dynamics of the internet' in motion, nothing more, as many better than I have already pointed out. It serves no purpose.

    And it avoids the real problem in this. Not Shelley Browning, not dressage, but just...people. Lots of people. Lots, just like her.

    My problem. Everybody's problem. Which is that there are plenty of people just like this lady right here in the good old Midwest(and anywhere else), and they are always shooting their mouth off about how everyone else should ride and running down people who don't...and some of these people are instructors or trainers. In any discipline you can name.

    That's the real problem.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  6. Arem

    Arem Senior Member

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    Your entire MO is telling all of what what we should think. And you post long dissertations about how we are all wrong and should think the way you do.

    So. Is it wrong? Or is it right?

    When you are a beginner at a level, you don’t suddenly loose all of your precious talent. At a new level, you are adding details and improving/refining the skills you already have.

    Shelley B does not have any skill at all. Whatsoever. She can’t ride. And it’s not because she’s a beginner at that level. It’s because she’s a beginner at EVERY level.

    It’s like Jiu Jitsu. I’m a new blue belt. So in belt context, I am a beginner blue belt. But I am not a beginner in the broader sense. I graduated that level. And while I have a sense of beginning again, I am building off of a foundation. Not actually beginning again. So my grappling is at new-blue-belt level. Not It’s-my-first-day level.

    This woman doing what she did would be like her showing up at a Jiu Jitsu competition with beginner level/brand new white belt experience, tying on a purple belt (belt progression white-blue-purple-brown-Black) and getting mad at her opponent for destroying her and hitting them.

    Dressage and Jiu Jitsu are the same in this way: you’re doing the same basic things from the first level to the last. You just add details and refine the things you’re already doing.

    I’m doing the same things as a blue belt that I was as a white. I’m just doing them better. The feeling of being a beginner again comes from growing my skill towards the next level. Dressage is the same.
     
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  7. GotaDunQH

    GotaDunQH Senior Member

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    And we all need to be told by you? Please.....this is not my first rodeo....been doing this longer than you. So go preach a a REAL beginner.
     
  8. shaiarabs

    shaiarabs Senior Member

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    Its Tristian Tucker..
     
  9. ginster

    ginster Senior Member

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    Do you know the saying that the message is formed by the recipient? It´s a saying we have here, "Die Botschaft entsteht beim Empfänger".
    If several people understand what you write the same way - and it´s not the way you intended it to be understood - then you should maybe look into phrasing it differently. More clearly.
    I am also not tealling you what to think. I am telling you how your message comes across. Big diff.
     
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  10. slc

    slc Senior Member

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    And I don't think that I should be held accountable for saying A MILLION DIFFERENT THINGS THAT I NEVER SAID just because I'm NOT saying this <expletive> woman should burn in <expletive> for being such an <expletive>. If that's how EVERYONE interprets what I say, they are still making a colossal blunder, and it STILL doesn't matter how many people assume I mean things I never said, that's still wrong.

    Face it, you'd have a FIT if the same thing was done to you. An absolute fit.
     
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