What is correct?

Discussion in 'Horse Training' started by CarlisleChipper, Nov 10, 2018.

  1. QRTXhorseman

    QRTXhorseman Senior Member

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    I applaud your goal Carlisle Chipper. And I understand your desire to find other resources to broaden your knowledge. My quietriding.org web site provides summaries of some of the dozens of books I have read in my own search for equestrian knowledge.

    Teaching and learning depend on communication. Communication can be quite tricky. What makes sense to one person can leave another perplexed and confused. This does not mean that the student cannot learn to understand the concept. It may simply mean they need to be told in a slightly different way.

    As mentioned by others, trying to learn from various instructors – personally, through reading, through videos – can be confusing. But it can also lead to insight. If you come across something in your broader studies that seems to make sense, ask your instructor about it. Your instructor may have forgot to tell you about this aspect or may not have run across this particular explanation in his or her own studies. Discussing such things can help broaden the knowledge of both student and teacher. We are all really students. Some are just sharing what they have already learned with those who have not yet learned that particular bit of knowledge.

    While riding is more a visceral than mechanical process, it must often be taught as if it were mechanical. The student must then, through practice, learn how this mechanical explanation must be processed into feel. This is similar to learning to play a musical instrument.

    Always be ready to modify what you think you have already learned. Timing of cues illustrates one reason for this. When we are first leaning to cue, it often takes time to process feel into thought into action. As we progress through practice, the process becomes more automatic and the brain becomes less involved. At first, we may need to think of cuing just before the horse’s leg leaves the ground. After working on this with the horse, the processing time may be reduced so you think of cuing as the foot leaves the ground. Later still, you may not even think about how or when you are cuing.
     
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  2. manesntails

    manesntails Senior Member

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    I think I get what she's saying. She wants to be able to internalize the principles of training, and if she doesn't understand how it's being communicated by one source, she needs to seek out another way to internalize it.

    It's best to listen to the way things are communicated by many trainers in EVERY discipline. Western riders can learn from English methods and English riders can learn from Western methods. For instance, the inside leg to outside rein we hear all the time. I have never had a trainer tell me to do that, from my Western riding I learned to use my body first, always, then, if I got a wonky reaction, I knew my body was not quite right, adjusted myself and tried again.

    First time a Mustang dropped his shoulder with me, on a turn, doing a figure 8, I guess I was 13, my Uncle told me that happened because I wasn't riding the turn I asked for with my body, I was “reining “ a different turn than I was riding.

    As far as knowing where the feet are, if you are thinking of YOURSELF doing the action and the horse follows, then you are riding. You aren't sitting and manipulating steering wheel and gas, your body is walking, at the walk, trotting at the trot, etc. You are doing it so that the horse can do it. So, you know where your own feet are and when to cue the horse because he is right there with you, following along.

    Sorry, I have a 100% diametrically opposite style of instructing than an English trainer would. If you understand the WHOLE picture, the elements of the scene follow. I do not sit and describe what to do with parts of your body while leaving out the most important element of it: your entire body has to assume the position you want the horse to have. It is not, just sit up and move “parts“ of you independently of one another. Your entire body has to be in sync.
     
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  3. BluemoonOKy

    BluemoonOKy Senior Member

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    I think what the op is wanting is real feel. That is something, in my opinion, that you will have to take up self study for. Check out the training resource thread I have on here...Look into the Franklin balls and lots of other free resources on there. Training Resources

    To learn the nitty gritty, you will see just as much self awareness of your own body to affect that of the horse...and, yes, looking at multiple disciplines for this will help you. I have taken lessons from teachers who are...reiners, western, dressage, hunter jumpers, mounted archers, eventers....and i am always learning.
    As far as how to LEARN where the feet are and really FEEL the legs move and where the feet are, close your eyes...Start from a halt (which incidentally you should learn how to get square)...You start walking and have someone from the ground help you at first, put your hand on either side of the horses pelvis, right or left...feel when that leg starts to swing and feel how it will also move that side of your pelvis...call out right, left, etc. Get on your hands and knees and move like horse at a walk on the ground....left hind, left front, right hind, right front so you actually understand how a correct moving gait is, then trot diagonal pairs, then canter, outside hind/ then diagonal set inside hind outside front, then inside front....Start the ankle circle from farmeress and @Rhythm 'n Blues (we need to find the link again, E)....Start closing your eyes at a walk and see if you can put one hand on cantle and one on pommel and then switch with eyes closed for balance. Rhythm and blues helped me so much...I will caution you this takes awhile if you want to do it right. I mean, like spend a whole year at walk, a whole year at trot, then another year for canter....I don't mean to do only those gaits, but to really figure this out it takes time. Learn how to position yiur body so the horse can halt square. Start halting and close your eyes and see if you can feel which of the horses legs are where...in addition to the position of your own legs and then look and see if you're right. This links feeling, kinesthetic and visual learning and if you say it out loud you'll reinforce it through audio as well. I spent an entire winter and spring doing this at first. And learn how to breathe. Post videos, we are here to help.
     
  4. ASBgirl

    ASBgirl Full Member

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    Thanks, love that you said this, I try to live by every bit of it with people around me not understanding why.
     
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  5. CarlisleChipper

    CarlisleChipper Senior Member+

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    So I've been reading the book The Principles of Riding by the German Equestrian Federation and that is exactly the theoretical knowledge and details I've been craving.
     
  6. Rhythm 'n Blues

    Rhythm 'n Blues Senior Member

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    @CarlisleChipper check out Ritter Dressage on FB & their website. They have lots of free videos & groups. Really good correct technical info. That might be something you like :)
     
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  7. CarlisleChipper

    CarlisleChipper Senior Member+

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    Very good page! Thank you for the suggestion. None of my facebook friends like that page so I'm sure they'll enjoy the shares from it as well!
     
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  8. Rhythm 'n Blues

    Rhythm 'n Blues Senior Member

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    Great! Enjoy them. They break things down really simply and really encourage people to experiment which is so good!
     
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