Unwilling to keep the right canter lead suddenly

Discussion in 'Horse Health' started by Ziast, Oct 1, 2018.

  1. Ziast

    Ziast Senior Member

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    I got an email today that the Pentosan was 30% off, so I put in an order. I bought Pentosan Gold last time, normal Pentsan this time. It was like $150 cheaper in the end, so...

    We know he's lame to some degree from the stifle joint. He's flexed 2-3/5 every time and joint block showed 80% improvement. It's all a bit of a viscous circle though; he hurts, so he doesn't use the leg, so it stays weak and it hurts. I've heard too many horror stories of horses being barely off, and it ends up being a torn suspensory or meniscus. I needed to be more assertive with my vet earlier on and demanded an ultrasound like I wanted originally.
    I do try to head outside when possible. It's been unseasonably warm, so I've been heading out into the field in the evenings when it's not too windy and it's bright enough. Occasionally on the weekends I'll go across the road to the canola field. The field in the back has a nice hill we do a lap or two around. The snow is starting to get pretty deep though. Last time we went out he was rooting and throwing his head around halfway around where we can usually walk on a long rein. Think the snow was too deep and hard to walk through. Turn around and finished the ride by hacking around the yard along the tractor paths. As long as it's not icy, that seems like a decent place to hack, and there are small hills there too.
    Part of what my trainer teaches in inhand work is to have the horse 'give the mouth', it seems similar to the jaw releases in that video, just with a bit.

    I've done some massage on him, and will take a curry and give his butt a good rubdown with the curry. I've actually got a massage manual thing that goes over all that stuff.
    He's not on the hill at the moment. All the horses were pull off the pasture for winter. He was in a paddock before winter though, which probably didn't help him. Last barn he was on pasture with hills and forest. He got put into the paddock herd when he moved. I was mostly concerned how he was going to hold his weight, but that's not been a problem. Stifles and the effects of standing at the bale wasn't even on my radar at the time. They did say if I wanted him moved to the hill pasture I could, so I'll do that come spring when they go back out.
    I have a little bit of BoT stuff; polos, hock wraps, and standing wraps. The polos wrap funny on his legs. I don't actually know if his hock wraps do anything, especially for the amount of time I'm able to have them on. I'll throw a standing wrap over his SIs with a quarter sheet on top while I groom, but I don't really know if that does much either.

    Wohoo! Another point for Canada. First Voltarin, now Robaxin. I'll wait until after the vet next week to try that. I've taken him off the pevicox and probably shouldn't put him on anything else before he's seen.

    I didn't get your walk/trot to the camera videos today. There was a lesson in the arena. Tomorrow or Saturday.
     
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  2. BluemoonOKy

    BluemoonOKy Senior Member

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    That's awesome that robaxin And voltaren (surpass, diclofenac, whatever) is otc in Canada.
    As far a Bute vs previcoxx and ulcer meds, I deal with vets who are not trying to sell me more expensive meds all the time. I'm dealing with some of the best lameness and primary care vets this side of this Mississippi river, who are vets for million dollar race horses. One of my vets is on the avma board of directors, just so you understand we are not talking backyard morons here. Please keep in mind that many Vets like to sell expensive ulcer guard and other various meds and a large percentage of their profits come from selling meds. I'm using like 1-2 grams bute max. I would like to see some non biased peer reviewed studies to back up any claims that previcoxx is "safer". You may be interested to read this. Update on the use of cyclooxygenase 2–selective nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs in horses
    Safer is relative. And yes, free choice hay management while on 24/7 turnout is way different for the digestive system and mental well being (which also contributes to digestive health) that getting a couple flakes 2 times a day stuck in a stall.
     
  3. Shmee

    Shmee Senior Member

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    Given that it is your right side forward, is there any chance that your pelvis is twisted (in relation to your rib cage and shoulders), and that you are actually cueing for a left bend all the time?
     
  4. LoveTrail

    LoveTrail Senior Member

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    Have you ever looked at him maybe having the body pain ulcers give?

    "Due to the consistent muscle pain patterns found in ulcer cases, the horse will cross canter or refuse to pick up a specific lead. Often these horses do not come through in the hindquarters (especially the right hind). They are often restricted in the shoulders due to a consistently found neuromuscular pattern that tightens the fascia over the muscles of the shoulder and wither pocket area. This myofascial contracture limits the ability of the muscles to lengthen and shorten appropriately. The result is pain and develops into a consistent pattern of vertebral dysfunction (chiropractic problem) in the wither vertebrae. Other consistent findings include chiropractic issues in the thoraco-lumbar area (the transition zone from chest vertebrae to the loin vertebrae). There is also a consistent pattern of pain and dysfunction where the lumbar vertebra joints articulate with the sacrum. Vertebral joint dysfunction is defined, basically, as an inability of joints to move through their full range of motion. Loss of joint motion results in pain and inability to use the back well.

    One very important muscle that is frequently dysfunctional in ulcer cases is the Psoas (pronounced “SO-as and is actually a group of 3 muscles). Taken together, this group represents one of the largest and strongest muscles in the body. Its function is to stabilize and protect the pelvic girdle from damage. This is the group of muscles that prevents a racehorse from literally fracturing its pelvis when it bolts from the starting gate. The Psoas muscles are usually intimately involved in chronic sore backs in both horses and people. When there is Psoas muscle pain the pelvis and croup muscles cannot function well. The croup muscles then go into spasm and are painful to palpation (touch). Understanding this, it is easy to visualize significant loss of performance ability."

    Equine Ulcers - You Really Need To Know More! - Dr. Kerry Ridgway
     
  5. Ziast

    Ziast Senior Member

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    @Rhythm 'n Blues
    Here the video you wanted. Of course the arena was full of people again, so I just did a couple of quick passes. Why is it 9/10 times I'm out there, it's empty, then the one time I want it to myself everyone is out? We just had a snowstorm and it's -30, stay home, people!


    @Shmee
    Yea, my right hip is a little twisted forward. Going to the right isn't as easy as the left, but it's by no means difficult.

    @LoveTrail
    I have considered the possibility of ulcers, but I don't think that's our problem. He has no classic symptoms; girthy, grumpy; sensitive to touch, loose stool, or colicy. He doesn't live a high risk way either. The chomping went away with NSAIDs, which I don't think we'd see if the chomping was rooted in ulcer pain. His muscle soreness and right hind lameness is more easily explainable by his jacked up stifle and fused hocks and any compensation for them. If the body pain was from ulcers, I'd imagine he'd have more general symptoms.


    I got a text from my trainer the other day. Apparently there is this farrier that comes around occasionally to help on problem cases'and assists the main farrier. At some point he saw Jules and said he would benefit from a bar shoe. I don't know much about them, but from reading it sounds like bar shoes are usually for navicular or crushed heels. Not sure why he thinks they would help him? Not sure if he knows Jule's history or issues, or if he was just looking as he passed by or something. Sounds like bar shoes are a lot more prone to being pulled off too, not like we need help pulling our shoes, lol. I'll mention it to the vet on Tuesday, but I'm not sold on the idea of bar shoes (no one mentioned what kind, either).
     
  6. Rhythm 'n Blues

    Rhythm 'n Blues Senior Member

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    Oh wow! Very telling...that RH does some very wonky stuff. There’s something definitely going on there.
     
  7. LoveTrail

    LoveTrail Senior Member

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    Right now my horse does have those body pains symptoms with ulcers, sore pelvis/si, sore back, tight shoulders. He first hurt himself in turnout and the combo of pain and bute it went from improving to where he could barely move despite chiro, PEMF, laser, massage, only hand walking, stretching, etc. He never stopped eating, no colic symptoms, no loose stools, not riding so can't confirm girthiness. Only sensitive to touch at the ulcer points, every single one. He's never really chomped with a bit even from the previous two bouts with ulcer. On the third day of treatment, today, first full day of no more bute, I tapered it off, he can now move his hind end fairly well and his front end is starting to loosen where I can pick up both front legs easily and stretch them.

    I had a previous horse wear bar shoes for when he had a sand crack that wouldn't stop cracking. It worked for him.

    Hope you can get him figured out soon.
     
  8. LoveTrail

    LoveTrail Senior Member

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    Now watched your video. Very wonky is his right hind and leaning to the right, reminds me actually of how I walk with my knee that had its ACL replaced and meniscus trimmed. Just had my first dry needling with it and KT taping and I have been walking straight now on it. It also looks like he is possibly rope walking with his left front. You only show the front once, so can't be a hundred percent sure on that.
     
  9. CarlisleChipper

    CarlisleChipper Senior Member+

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    Since he is on an NSAID now he is even more susceptible to ulcers. With nexium being such a cheap effective treatment it couldn't hurt to try it. My horse didn't really show typical symptoms either but clearly had them.
     
  10. Rhythm 'n Blues

    Rhythm 'n Blues Senior Member

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    Ulcers certainly is not the cause here. The latest videos clearly shows a very wonky RH with every step. I wouldn’t bother treating ulcers in hopes of it fixing the lameness. That’s definitely not going to work given how that limb moves. Ulcer meds may make him feel better & be less girthy though.

    Ziat, what does the vet say about how that entire limb travels??
     
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