"Tiamo!"

Discussion in 'Horse Chat' started by slc, Dec 29, 2018.

  1. slc

    slc Senior Member

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    The horse is not 'how overflexed,' it is just a few degrees back of the vertical. This can happen for as trivial a reason as the rider simply half halted.

    The position of the horse is generally very good, at that moment, it got a little behind the vertical. That would have lost the horse some points in competition. In schooling the position is not going to be perfect every second because the rider is working on various things, for example she tries for a little more engagement or a little more on the spot, the horse loses its balance a little, the rider goes forward, then try again, the world won't end.

    Good grief I have seen so many Western ridden horses with their chin on their chest and no one bats an eyelash.

    The horse is supposed to have its neck lifted up and its head on or near the vertical when piaffing. And in one picture it is slightly behind the vertical. Most of the time the horse's position is very good.
     
  2. slc

    slc Senior Member

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    [​IMG]

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    here from 'teach your horse to soften to the bit':

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    this under the heading of 'warm up the right way':
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  3. CarlisleChipper

    CarlisleChipper Senior Member+

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    I don't even see a picture of a piaffe anywhere...
     
  4. slc

    slc Senior Member

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    The last picture in my first post... that is Tiamo with his young rider, doing a piaffe.

    How do you know?

    Priority points are things that have to be present, that are 'characteristic of the movement.'

    The basic priority points of piaffe are:
    1. The horse stays on or nearly on one spot without moving backward or stepping back. There MUST NOT be any backward tendency.
    2. The horse does a 'trot like movement.' This means diagonal pairs of legs move together, like in a trot.

    Diagonal pairs of legs are moving together(as legs move together in diagonal pairs at the trot).

    The withers(front end of the horse) are lifted.

    The hind quarters are lowered compared to the withers(that does not occur in all horses doing piaffe, and if exaggerated, can make it very difficult for the horse to transition out of the piaffe, and that transition is also scored).

    The supporting front leg is almost vertical.

    The cannons of the hind legs are slanted forward ('hind legs are engaged').

    The hocks are moved forward, under the body ('hind legs are engaged').

    The gaskins (hind leg from stifle to hock) are directly under the horse (almost vertical or vertical).

    The angle between the head and throat is 'closed' (the neck is lifted and the head is near to 'on the vertical' rather than thrust forward).

    The forearm (front leg from elbow to knee) at the highest point of the stride, is nearly vertical) and the front hoof is at the height of about the midpoint of the cannon.

    At the highest point of the stride, the hooves of the hind feet are (only) lifted to about the height of the hind fetlocks, but are clear of the ground.

    When at the highest point of the stride, the hooves of the front feet point down.

    And of course you can't see from a still photo, but in the piaffe, the horse is 'performing a trotlike movement' (diagonal pairs of legs moving in unison) with little to no forward advancement.

    Ideally, the line of the forehead would be 'in front of the vertical'(the 'vertical' is a vertical line from the poll, perpendicular to the ground). Here, the horse's head as momentarily dropped slightly behind that vertical line. Top-scoring horses do many things right, and also may maintain their head position at or slightly in front of the vertical for all the steps of piaffe.

    Here, the picture is taken slightly from the front, so it looks like the horse is more behind the vertical than he is.

    The rider may have just half-halted to prevent the horse from advancing forward. Especially during schooling there's a 'delicate balancing act' going on between the horse staying within that 1 meter space and advancing forward.

    When the rider half-halts, the nose of the horse moves slightly back as the jaw 'gives', as Reiner Klimke described 'the horse should say, 'yes I see''). In training the rider might keep the horse slightly behind the vertical to keep the poll and jaw supple.

    In Grand Prix test, the horse performs 15 steps of piaffe at a time.

    That's the overall look of a piaffe.

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    In motion(keep in mind that NO VIDEO is perfect, the video is meant to show the priority points - this is NOT a rider who is experienced at that level of riding and the piaffe is 'traveling' - as it usually is with a less experienced horse or rider).



    This one is a little more on the spot, but again, this is in the warmup, and the rider does not want to put it 100% on the spot. This horse is consistently 'in front of the vertical' as desired, but not all horses can piaffe as well as this one. This video shows first, flying lead changes at every stride, then some piaffe.



    In Passage, another trot-like movement, the horse moves forward more, and springs up off the ground more. His hind quarters are not in the same position as with piaffe, and the hind feet are usually lifted slightly higher.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  5. Mcdreamer

    Mcdreamer Senior Member

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    That's why I said "I don't like seeing it anywhere." Defensive much?
     
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  6. slc

    slc Senior Member

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    Not defensive, just factual.
     
  7. Suzanneszoo

    Suzanneszoo Senior Member

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    No matter if he was momentarily behind the bit, I can still respect his owner for making the right decision to retire him and do her best by him.

    Speaking of behind the bit, my mare and I are starting the dressage journey, and let me tell you, it is NOT easy. We are behind the bit, beside the bit, in the same arena with the bit, sometimes in the same country as the bit, but seldom consistently ON the bit. All in the same 10 seconds.

    If it was easy, I'd be riding a bicycle.

    Kudos to anyone who can do it, and not just find a wall to pound their head into. Which would be less painful.
     
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  8. slc

    slc Senior Member

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    Truer words were never spoke, LOL. And in fact, it gets harder, not easier, to chase that bit!

    Remember that line from "A League of Their Own" where Tom Hanks yells, "ARE YOU CRYING???? THERE'S NO CRYING IN BASEBALL!" AHAHAHAHA.

    I actually heard a dressage instructor yell that at a sobbing student, LOL. Back in the good old days when instructors were allowed to yell, of course.

    "ARE YOU CRYING? THERE'S NO CRYING IN DRESSAGE!"

    LOL!

    But my favorite response is this. One instructor told a student, 'Go ahead and cry, but make it quick. You're only allowed to cry for 30 seconds after your lesson ends.'

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    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  9. Suzanneszoo

    Suzanneszoo Senior Member

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    At least I found someone willing to train me and my fat necked little Fjord pony. A Valegro, she is not.
     
  10. slc

    slc Senior Member

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    Doesn't matter a bit.

    And there's always this....

     

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