Talk to me about PPID/Cushing's...

Discussion in 'Horse Health' started by DocsLglyBlonde, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. DocsLglyBlonde

    DocsLglyBlonde Senior Member

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    I figured I'd update here because as far as I can tell, tooth infections are a pretty common issue with PPID horses. She had the fractured tooth noted 6 months ago, and I had planned to make her an appointment again in the next week or two anyways. I rode yesterday and went bitless, but feel awful about it regardless. She was super fussy, not happy, but also being a brat so I wasn't positive it wasn't just her being amped up (I also just gave her a monthly Adequan injection last week which always seems to get her feeling fresh). We got back home after not doing a ton but trying to work through things. She definitely started showing some mouth pain signs, I checked her out and got a little infection whiff right near her mouth. I have a weirdly sensitive sense of smell though, so it was very minor but definitely there. Of course my vet is closed yesterday and today, but I have a practically new bottle of antibiotics from Sam's tooth and sinus infection earlier this year :rolleyez: I started her on that last night, fed her this morning, did her meds, gave her food, and saw a fractured piece of tooth that fell into her bowl :sick:

    She's eating fine, has no discharge, is still not any more stinky, but I'm definitely keeping her on the antibiotics and will have my vet out in the next day or two... I don't think it warrants an emergency visit but definitely want it checked out asap. She was actually eating more comfortably this morning after the fracture came out, but it was quite sharp, so I'll be watching her closely and again, getting the vet out tomorrow or the next day depending on what she tells me. I need to go get syringes because she cracked my last one and the antibiotics are super bitter so won't get in any other way :(

    She's still managing to eat just fine though which is good. I am picking her up some alfalfa pellets to soak thought for good measure. I'm thinking the tooth will need to be extracted though, which I sincerely hope is not an ordeal. Samson's extraction was easy peasy, but he has 10 years on her and his tooth was already loose. Fingers crossed! :rolleyez:

    (Note the Costco sized box of NutriGrain bars in the background which have been a Prascend giving lifesaver)
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  2. DocsLglyBlonde

    DocsLglyBlonde Senior Member

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    She's the saddest thing right now... I believe that she's not comfortable, but also think she is being just a bit of a drama queen. She's moping around but also eating the pellets fine and most of her hay up. I have her on the antibiotics, low dose of bute, preventative ulcerguard, and am doing a warm salt water rinse a few times a day. She has no discharge, barely noticeable swelling on the left side, still only a little smell when you're really up in there, but you'd think she was dying :rolleyes: I think she's an attention seeking patient :p

    I'm calling the vet first thing in the am and will keep everyone updated.
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  3. DocsLglyBlonde

    DocsLglyBlonde Senior Member

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    So vet agreed it sounds like they can wait to come out until tomorrow, but will be here tomorrow afternoon. Our tech/receptionist was like, of course she started having issues on a holiday. Horses. :rolleyes:

    The smell is definitely going away with the antibiotic, which will be nice for the vet tomorrow when she'ss all up in there.

    She seems like she's feeling better, just still mopey... Like the world is ending :rofl: She's eating even better now and was pushing me around with her face this morning, which means she's trying to make me feel bad for her but also willing to accept cookies, and not uncomfortable enough to try and push me over with said painful face :rolleyes: Silly girl. She hates the metronidazole but think she appreciates the warm salt water rinse she gets afterward to take out the bitterness. Spoiled girl! IMG_20190101_184815.jpg
     
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  4. DocsLglyBlonde

    DocsLglyBlonde Senior Member

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    Holy moly :confused:

    Vet came and said she was quite sharp for being done exactly 6 months ago. Then she started poking around and found numerous fractured teeth... I forget what the total was but is was like 8-10 :eek: Some are slab fractures, others go down to the gum line. We were both very concerned about an underlying issue so opted for skull radiographs. In the barn nothing looked abnormal, but she's going to look at them more closely and adjust the contrast to be certain. If she is unsure, she'll send them out for another opinion. She said she saw absolutely nothing alarming or emergent though, which is good considering I started panicking about EORTH or jaw tumors or something :cry: She floated her, noted all the fractures and basically said to keep her on the antibiotics another few days for a course of 10 days. She said she saw no sign of infection now, but definitely believes me that there was one based on everything happening in there. I have no idea what may be going on that has caused such a drastic change in the last 6 months.

    I think I'll keep her on the hay pellets in addition to her hay just as an additive at leats until she seems to be eating normally. She's still eating well, just not quite as well as normal, but that may change after the float. I'm truly perplexed and open to any opinions!

    I felt too bad to take her photo while she was rigged up, but this was her after she was all done.
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    Then I left her after a little bit, my mom came inside and casually said she was laying down :eek: so I just ran back out and found this
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    But turns out she was just sleeping off her drugs in her fresh shavings :p
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    Poor old girl! My vet did confirm that if after the antibiotics she keeps having issues, we can dig deeper and see if anything needs to be extracted, but it would be a procedure due to her age (not that old). Nothing was loose though and no abscesses were on the rads.

    Like I said, opinions are most definitely welcome :confused: I'll be getting sent the rads so can post them later too if anyone's interested.
     
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  5. Rhythm 'n Blues

    Rhythm 'n Blues Senior Member

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    The rads would be interesting to see for sure, but if she was started on antibiotics that would likely reduce/eliminate any abscesses that you would have hope to see on the rads no??
     
  6. DocsLglyBlonde

    DocsLglyBlonde Senior Member

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    She said if there were deep root abscesses, those would probably still be visible, because I had just started her on the antibiotics Tuesday pm. However, if she goes through the course and there's still an issue afterward, that would be something we'd have to look into further. I'm on a PPID Facebook group, and tooth issues seem to be super common, but I can't find anyone who's had a horse experience such a sudden decline in dental health! Prascend also lists "tooth disorders" as a side effect, but I cannot find what that means anywhere. I don't think it would be worth stopping her meds anyways, but we could potentially play with lowering the dose. I don't know... I'm just really perplexed at the whole thing. I haven't gotten rads yet but will post them when I do!
     
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  7. DocsLglyBlonde

    DocsLglyBlonde Senior Member

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    Sorry if this is aggressively tagging, but searching through old threads @NaeNae you seem to have a ton of knowledge and great advice on dental stuff (obviously :p )... Do you have any thoughts, when you get a chance? Still waiting on rads but I'll call Monday if I don't get them by then... I'm sure my vets have a lot more on their minds than emailing them to me!
     
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  8. LoveTrail

    LoveTrail Senior Member

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    So have you ever looked into any of the products with CBD oil?

    Foxy as you know is low end IR, but looks more IR than his tests show, 17.4 for insulin. Most labs say anything under 20 or 40 is not IR. Well, I have been trying recently to get his body more improved and his muscles, they get tight especially in his neck which he has a crest with no success. I tried to change part of his hay to a lower NSC, but he is allergic to grass hay, most specifically timothy since that's what we grow in Colorado. It makes him anxious and he stocks up real easy on it with just a couple of handfulls.

    Well, anyway, a friend is making a new product and is testing it on friends' horses. And January 1 we started giving Foxy's the cookies, I call them Foxy's edibles. And in just a couple of days you can already see a difference. And he is improving despite being at a stressful horse show.

    This was him on January 2, 2019. He only had one cookie the night before because I wanted to make sure he wasn't allergic to it. He actually had a slight improvement already, just hadn't taken a before photo on January 1, 2019. 010219FoxyEdibles.jpg

    Then this was him today, January 4, 2019, two days and four more cookies later.

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    I am very happy with the results so far and hoping I can get him to look more like he did when was nine. He's 17 now.

    Foxy9.jpg
     
  9. DocsLglyBlonde

    DocsLglyBlonde Senior Member

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    I have done a small amount of research on it, but would hate to have it affect her PPID and/or effects of Prascend with it not being super well researched or tested. I've heard people have had good results with it though!
     
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  10. LoveTrail

    LoveTrail Senior Member

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    So we retested Foxy for Cushings and IR because of the pain he has been in the last two months. Vet thought he might have gotten laminitis, but turns out he didn't via x-rays and it just appears he got a sole bruise and abscess from the last shoeing. New weird pads that too much pressure and possibly a quick nail. I know he redid a nail in that foot and he got lame three hours later. Only problem was he was already on stall rest for bruising his hoof wall on his right hind. So just thought it was a nail that went into a bruise we couldn't see since it is dark and the right hind is a white leg. I think it started to come out his coronary band and then I finally got the farrier out to take his shoe off so then it started down. But, first I did stall rest again for the sole bruise which must have delayed the abscess until I started walking him again. So that's why the vet was thinking laminitis.

    So when the farrier and vet came out Tuesday not only did the vet do the x-rays, but the farrier did a hoof test and had minor reaction on his bruised toe, but a bigger reaction on where I thought he had an abscess. Other vet that came out the day before must have not tested him right because she had no reaction there, just reaction on the toe bruise. So the farrier worked on where the abscess might be without doing a lot of digging just in case it wasn't one and then wrapped him up. Well, today he is already nearly sound on his foot and will get reshod tomorrow. So hope we can start trotting after he is shod.

    Oh, and his results were 70 for insulin after two months of stall rest and pain and just had some grain prior to the test and it was taken in the evening, not morning. Last year it was 17.4 So want that tested again when the pain is all gone to verify really where he is at for insulin. Now, the weird part is now he is at 5 for Cushings and last year he was at 26. Vet just said "normal is normal."
     
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