"Round pen him until he can't run anymore"

Discussion in 'Horse Training' started by bellalou, Dec 13, 2016.

  1. endurgirl

    endurgirl Senior Member

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    Once you go Jack, you never go back!!




    Sorry, couldn't resist. :p


    I get told I'm cruel for having my horses barefoot.
     
    AmyK, mygirl1197, NBChoice and 19 others like this.
  2. Alsosusieq2

    Alsosusieq2 Senior Member

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    Now that just takes the cake. Seriously-!! :cool:
     
  3. bellalou

    bellalou Senior Member

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    You can't win on that one. I get told I'm cruel because my mare wears shoes. :p
     
  4. Binca

    Binca Senior Member

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    Yup, I have been told that one. Then when I reply "why would I breed her? She has had very little done under saddle, and no competition record of any sort. Why would I breed an unproven mare, and what would I do with the foal when there are already so many unwanted horses out there?" they always look so shocked and horrified that I wouldn't just stick my mare to some random stallion to get some random foal on the off chance it will settle her hormones.

    Oh, and there is some natural horsemanship trainer some of the newer people at my stables have started using. He has done wonders for a young girl's confidence under saddle which is great, but what I hear of his methods is just dangerous. He told the kids in his lesson (keep in mind these are girls 13 and younger) that they all have to do the lesson without helmets because they should "trust their horses". BAM goes his insurance. And these are young kids, some of which have horses they are having trouble with. But even if the horse was perfect, they are still an unpredictable animal and these kids are young and inexperienced. No matter how much they trust their horses they could still come off.

    I have also seen some off ground work methods coming from him too. o_O
     
  5. manesntails

    manesntails Senior Member

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    Talcum powder. Makes the crupper slide.
     
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  6. slc

    slc Senior Member

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    "Round pen him 'til he won't(or can't) run any more."

    What the real irony here is, going forward, WANTING to go forward, even being rewarded BY going forward, it's such an imperative for dressage, I would never want to make a horse run until he wouldn't run anymore. I would never want to make forward motion be a punishment or a 'correction', or...'explanation' or 'making the wrong thing hard', or whatever this sort of thing is called in this method.

    Because so much of the upper level dressage work requires so much forward energy, I wouldn't ever do anything like that. Ever. No matter what the age of the horse, even if the horse was going to max out at first level, I wouldn't do it. I'm not sure that the amount of energy involved really becomes apparent to the student until s/he has schooled a horse more up through the harder movements(especially with so many pseudo-dressage-trainers around).
     
  7. LoveTrail

    LoveTrail Senior Member

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    Not to mention hard on the tendons and ligaments of the horse to round pen all the time.
     
  8. foxtrot

    foxtrot Senior Member

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    I can (sadly) think of two dumb bits of "advice" I've gotten lately.

    1) "You need to get those minis trained to drive! Minis are never happy unless they can pull a cart!"
    Right. Not to discount horses that genuinely do love having a job, but for horses that have never been TRAINED to drive, I'm pretty sure they don't sit around thinking "man, if only I was pulling a cart right now."

    2) "You need to lock your horses out of the barn! Being able to go in and out of a stall makes horses stressed!"
    My barn is set up so the three stalls are open to the dry lot, so the horses can come in and go out at will. I have no idea how this is supposed to make them stressed that they can get out of the elements or get a bite of hay indoors. Then again, the suffering is obvious in my own photos, so maybe I'm wrong.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. slc

    slc Senior Member

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    If I was your friend, I'd be much more concerned about the construction of the stalls, than the turnout or lack of driving. The verticals in the stalls, with the tops of the boards sticking out over the horizontals, are very unsafe.

    1. I do think that all horses need more exercise than being in a pasture eating or hanging around in a dry lot. And I do think all horses that are sound enough need to be 'in a program' of some appropriate work. I don't think most turnouts offer enough exercise, and generally, minis and ponies are going to have trouble if they're on lush pasture all day.

    2. Yes, in fact, I do think that there is a very small amount of stress involved in going in and out of the barn. I do. The least amount of stress is having everything very settled, no decisions or thinking, and an unvarying schedule. You go out at this time, you come in at this time.

    Why does an in and out stress horses slightly? The reason is that most horses don't have an in and out situation, or a door behind them when they're eating, and they're not used to it. It means they have more to think about. It does cause nervousness in some horses, though that's usually slight and they usually adjust within a week or two.

    It's definitely more mental stimulation. Though with almost all horses, mental stimulation benefits them. They often feel the need to rush outside to go look at something, and they often will then communicate with each other more, such as one will want another to come out and they'll all shift around more, working out their social hierarchy.

    Basically, you have 1. all the problems of group turnout 2. all the problems of group housing indoors, and most importantly, 3. the problems of multiple horses going in and out of one doorway, which actually is a considerable problem. The narrower the door, the bigger that problem. They can crowd in the doorway, and the footing tends to deteriorate rapidly around the doorway.

    It's important to keep in mind that when groups of horses are allowed to go in and out a doorway on their own, problems really can occur.

    I think with a in and out, it's a good idea to place water and feed buckets so that the horse can see both the front and back doors. Remembering that they have pretty much, 'wrap around vision' and can see a lot on either side of them.

    The thing I think is extremely important, is that the stalls and doorways are safe. The door is wide enough to accommodate all the horses in one enclosure wanting to go through the door at once, one horse isn't constantly pushed outside and not allowed to eat, there is not an excess of kicking and fighting due to the horses being in one enclosure.

    Another thing is that the doorway and stall footing need to be completely not-slippery, all the time. In this kind of situation the horses can run into the stall so it's extremely important that you fix any deterioration in the footing around the doorway, watch very carefully for broken boards or damage, etc.
     
  10. manesntails

    manesntails Senior Member

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    There's no way to know if your minis, or any horse, will be happier trained to do something until you................get them trained to do something. I have to say, most horses enjoy a break from the repetition of the same scenery all the time and driving, which is easy on the horse's body, gets them out of the pasture.
     
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