Roe V Wade

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by mooselady, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. Peanut Palomino

    Peanut Palomino Senior Member

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    Whenever this discussion comes up, I'm reminded of Alyson Draper. Draper was pro-life, until she had to choose to end a late-term pregnancy in order to save herself.

    An excerpt:
    "I lay on the hospital floor, bawling hysterically, for twelve hours, waiting for an ethics committee of the health care corporation to decide my case justified what had to be done. My health was in danger due to the dead fetus. My husband and I consulted our LDS Bishop, who assured me I needed to do what I had to do, that it was even within LDS guidelines to do so. He reminded me I had six kids (a blended family) at home who needed their mother to live.

    The abortion was terrible. It was done very gently, by Caesarean section, leaving the babies in their amniotic sacs. The living baby passed very quickly.

    It was horrific. I think it even affected my dear physician, as he had never had to end a pregnancy before. I developed PTSD for which I had to be treated for years, mostly because of the fact I had to have it at all.

    No woman should have to have the state have a say in the most painful decision she will ever make. Nobody is tearing babies apart in late term. They are always humanely done, only in situations where there is a non-viable or severely defective fetus and/or the mother’s health is at risk."

    The full article: Mormon Mom Has An Abortion Story Donald Trump Needs To Hear | HuffPost


    An another note, it needs to be stated that Planned Parenthood DOES NOT use taxpayer money to fund abortions-- because it would be illegal for them to do so.
    Planned Parenthood - FactCheck.org
    How Federal Funding Works at Planned Parenthood
    Trump proposes cutting Planned Parenthood funds. What does that mean?


    And just to state my stance, in case anyone is confused:
    I don't believe I could ever go through with an abortion. And I hope I am never faced with that choice. I want to be a mother one day. And I plan to be a darn good one. My child will be born when I am ready to give him/her the life he/she deserves. Until then, I have an IUD that has me covered for 10 years. For those of you arguing that BC is unhealthy, I would encourage you to research non-hormonal BC. I have Paraguard, which is just a simple piece of copper that damages sperm. No side effects whatsoever (aside from the body's initial adjustment).
    All that said, I'm absolutely pro-abortion. The decision to end a pregnancy is between the woman, her doctor, and whoever else she chooses to involve. The government has no place in these very personal, very unique decisions.
     
  2. sandstorm

    sandstorm Senior Member

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    If y'all are done with reasoned discussion, I'm bowing out
     
  3. ColorMyWorld

    ColorMyWorld Senior Member

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    I am against abortion. I am a Christian and that does influence me, because I believe it is a child at conception. I also personally just cannot support it.

    That being said, I don't believe abortion should just be outlawed without MANY other things coming into place. I work in the foster care and adoption industry, so I have a first hand experience. We need many more people to step it up and be willing to adopt and take kids in. There have been many statistics done, though I am not sure the accuracy, but it basically points out that if 6-7% of professing Christians would adopt ONE child, there would be no orphans or children waiting in foster care WORLDWIDE. If one family out of three churches would adopt in the US, there would be no children left in foster care in the US. If two families per church in the US would adopt, no "orphans" left worldwide.

    I do not think adoption is for everyone, since I have worked with foster children my whole life (my parents adopted 4 and fostered 20 plus kids over the years), and I have worked in a treatment center with that population for 5 years. I was also in intern at a ministry that took in "prison babies", many who were born addicted to drugs or alcohol, or with other medical issues. But I do think many more people need to step it up (Christians or not) and adopt. And if they are not willing to adopt, are they willing to support those that do adopt? Financially? Babysit for them? Help to educate and raise the kids? My family itself has faced issues with adoption and not feeling supported in it. Some ways people have been amazing, other ways, (even family members), not so much.

    I passed a group of people protesting abortion awhile ago. And like I said, while I do NOT agree with abortion, and DO want it outlawed as as form of "birth control", I wanted to stop and chat with some of the protesters to see WHAT some of them were willing to do. Not just vote it away. But would they take a child? Not just a cute perfect newborn baby. What about a baby born addicted or medically fragile, or one with special needs that another person feels they cannot handle? Would they take in a teen mother that got kicked out and help support her, help her get an education, help her with the baby when it came? Would they adopt an older foster child? Take a sibling group? Will they be willing to mentor a single mother or drug addict? Volunteer in pregnancy centers and childcare centers? Start an after school program to help keep kids busy and out of trouble? Poor a ton of money into these things? Help in inner city areas where things like this may be more prevalent? Doing years of training and therapy themselves to help?

    Because I see it all the time. People wanting these things to stop, but not actually be willing to do anything about it. Or people "throwing" their adopted child away when their behaviors and mental issues start. People only wanting that white little baby. We have people disrupt the adoption of a little girl they promised they would adopt (to her face, told her she was their daughter now, they loved her, etc), because she wet the bed and hid it on a weekend visit. She was 8. Then we had to deal with the escalated behaviors from this child who was abandoned all over again. These were people would called themselves Christians. I deal with it everyday and it is SO hard. Adoption and foster care is HARD. I myself had a chaotic childhood because of all the kids in and out my home. But the kids are worth it, and amazing. The behaviors can be horrible. Even infant adoption can cause deep seeded, unconscious abandonment issues in a child that can sometimes require years of therapy. And it gets worse and worse the older the child. Still, I do not think a child should not have a chance to live because of the issues.

    My parents are in their 50's (dad is almost 60) and renewing their foster parent license now that the 4 adopted kids are teenagers, and 3 of us kids are out of the house. The youngest boys, now 13 and 15, have younger half siblings in foster care
    (I think they are around 3 and 4) that my parents will most likely get.

    I have a small place now, but in a few years, regardless if I am single or not, I will get a bigger place and adopt kids or do foster care, maybe both. If I do marry, I want to adopt older children or special needs. I am not sure if I even want to get pregnant if I do marry, or just adopt. I will have to let future husband have some say I suppose, but he will have to be willing to adopt at least a few.

    Adoption though foster care is generally free. However private adoption of babies in outrageous, so there would also hopefully be a way to cut those costs, making it easier to adopt a baby that a woman does not wish to keep.
     
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  4. CoffeeBean

    CoffeeBean Senior Member

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    ColorMyWorld - If I may ask, what is your stance on various forms of contraception? That is incredibly difficult work that you do but I hope you find it rewarding more often than not!

    On the flip side of those who do not adopt in the Christian community are those who do adopt as many children as they can and deliberately adopt melanin-enhanced children from other countries. Some people have dubbed it "orphan theology". Are you familiar with the term? It's new to me and I don't know how widespread it is anymore, or was at all. Which I find patronizing - the whole, "saving those dark-skinned heathens from themselves" should have never started, let alone continue as a mindset.

    I'm in a hurry and the two links are the voices of the sort of people with whom you may not regularly have the odd lunch, but they are interesting to read. Maybe 10 minutes between the two of them if you are nursing a cup of coffee. There are links within the articles if you have more time or are interested in their sources.

    Time to play musical stalls and go to work.

    Saving Children from Africa: A Quiverfull Adoption Fad

    Orphan Fever: The Evangelical Movement’s Adoption Obsession
     
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  5. NaeNae

    NaeNae Senior Member

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    Very good post, it's easy for me to respect your opinion when you explain yourself so thoroughly and you're clearly someone who takes so much action in this area.

    I agree with you, most definitely, that if abortions were to be taken away, adoptions definitely need to step up. But, as I'm sure you already see, that's such an issue already in the USA and many parts of the world even.

    But thank you, so much for doing above and beyond your part when it comes to helping children without families.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
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  6. Jim_in_PA

    Jim_in_PA Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    That's certainly an interesting ideal, but impossible in real life. Self-determination is what it is and folks will make decisions when they make them. Some might be poor choices (at least in the eyes of others) but they are still personal choices and honestly, that's not going to change regardless of laws or even social convention. Some will learn from those choices and others will not. This is a topic really close to me right now as I try to be the very best parent I can be to a coming 19 year old going on 25 and a coming 23 year old going on 8. And honestly, if either one of them ever faced a decision with regard to abortion, I'd support them 110% for what their decision is, regardless of their age or any personal feelings I might have about it because I truly believe it's their intrinsic right. Even if it was technically "not legal" if, for some reason, Roe doesn't stand. I'd find a way to help them safely.

    The concept of "mental maturity" is also a generalization when it comes to timing even if it's a researched concept. There will always be folks who are "mentally mature" at a much younger age than most and there will always be folks who are late in life and still not "mentally mature".
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
  7. NaeNae

    NaeNae Senior Member

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    Oh I agree, 100%.

    I can state what I think would be a beneficial change to the ways things are run in parts of society, but I also do know it would never happen. As you say, while the brain may "finish maturing" at such and such an age, mental maturity is definitely, in fact, achieved on an individual basis.

    One could, in a very loose example, compare it to the "physical maturity" of the horses skeletal structure. Yes, as a whole, each breed has a certain time as to when their skeletal system is completely grown, fused and matured. But that varies by individual. Same as to with humans and mental maturity.

    I do realize that it is not a realistic thing to put into practice. But the world would be a way different place if there was some sort of way to measure mental maturity and restrict certain actions until one is fit to do so.
     
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  8. Jim_in_PA

    Jim_in_PA Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not sure that would be a world that the vast majority of us would want to live in...
     
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  9. NaeNae

    NaeNae Senior Member

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    That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

    Say, are you okay with someone needing to be licensed to drive a car?

    Now what about someone needing to have SOME sort of know how before being able to bring another human being into the world?

    I'm not saying we need to pick and choose who can and can't procreate. I'm not saying this needs to happen and I know it won't. But you'd be kidding yourself if you didn't think that the world would be better off if something as major as bringing another life into the world wouldn't be positively affected by some required education first.
     
  10. Alyssa Hughes

    Alyssa Hughes Full Member

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    That'd be great, but it'll never happen. Personally I think that if you are living off the government (not working, but perfectly capable aka being lazy/unable to provide for them youself) you shouldn't be having kids.
     
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