renters insurance on a property that was built without a permit

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by clara17, Mar 13, 2018.

  1. clara17

    clara17 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    511
    so I am moving into a one bedroom apartment that is located on the property where I keep my horse. The hay loft of the upper barn was converted into a one bedroom apartment. Its super cute and was built by a contractor (barn owners husband) however they did not get a permit to build the apartment. I just read my insurance policy and I did not see anything that referred to the property needing to be built by a permit in order to be insured. does anyone have experience with this? The following are snippits from my policy. I was told to give the insurance agency the barn owners address and tell them I am renting a room from her but i'm not sure how that would work out if I ever had to make a claim and they had to investigate?

    LIABILITY LOSSES WE DO NOT COVER Item 1.a. is deleted and replaced by: a. which: (1) is expected or intended by any insured or which is the foreseeable result of an act or omission intended by any insured; or (2) results from violation of: (a) criminal law; or (b) local or municipal ordinance committed by, or with the knowledge or consent of any insured. This exclusion applies even if: (3) such insured lacks the mental capacity to form intent; (4) such bodily injury or property damage is of a different kind or degree than expected or intended; or (5) such bodily injury or property damage is sustained by a different person, or persons, than expected or intended. This exclusion applies whether or not any insured is charged or convicted of a violation of criminal law, or local or municipal ordinance. Item 2.a.(3) is deleted. Item 2.g. is deleted and replaced by the following: g. bodily injury or property damage arising, in whole or part, out of the actual, alleged, or threatened discharge, dispersal, seepage, migration, release, escape, emission, transmission, absorption, ingestion or inhalation of pollutants or contaminants at any time. This includes any loss, cost or expense arising out of any: (1) request, demand or order that any insured or others test for, monitor, abate, clean up, remove, contain, treat, detoxify, neutralize, or in any way respond to, or assess, the effects of pollutants or contaminants; (2) claim or suit by or on behalf of a governmental authority for damages because of testing for, monitoring, cleaning up, removing, containing, treating, detoxifying, neutralizing, or in any way responding to, or assessing, the effects of pollutants or contaminants; SECTIONS I AND II — PROPERTY AND LIABILITY CONDITIONS The following is added to item 2. Concealment or Fraud: This exclusion does not apply to an otherwise-covered property loss if the property loss is caused by an act of domestic abuse by another insured under the policy, providing: a. the insured claiming a property loss files a police report and cooperates with any law enforcement investigation relating to the act of domestic abuse; and b. the insured claiming a property loss did not cooperate in or contribute to the creation of the property loss. **** REPRINTED FROM THE ARCHIVE. THE ORIGINAL TRANSACTION MAY INCLUDE ADDITIONAL FORMS **** CHO-6104/WAEP R1 2/15 Page 6 of 8 Payment pursuant to this provision shall be limited to the insurable interest in the property of the insured claiming a property loss. For purposes of this provision, “domestic abuse” means: a. physical harm, bodily injury, assault, or the infliction of fear of imminent physical harm, bodily injury, or assault between family or household members; b. sexual assault of one family or household member by another; c. stalking as defined in RCW 9A.46.110 of one family or household member by another family or household member; or d. intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causing damage to property so as to intimidate or attempt to control the behavior of another family or household member.

    “Insured location” means: a. the residence premises; b. that part of any other premises, other structures and grounds, used by you as a residence and which is shown in the Declarations. This includes any premises, structures and grounds which are acquired by you during the policy period for your use as a residence; c. any premises used by you in connection with the premises included in a. or b.; d. any part of a premises not owned by any insured but where any insured is temporarily residing; e. vacant land owned by or rented to any insured other than farmland; f. land owned by or rented to any insured on which a one, two, three or four family dwelling is being constructed as a residence for any insured; g. individual or family cemetery plots or burial vaults of any insured; or h. any part of a premises occasionally rented to any insured for other than business purposes.

    PERSONAL PROPERTY WE COVER COVERAGE C — PERSONAL PROPERTY 1. Personal property owned or used by any insured is covered while it is anywhere in the world. When personal property is usually located at an insured’s residence, other than the residence premises, coverage is limited to 10% of the Coverage C limit. Personal property in a newly acquired principal residence is not subject to this limitation for the 30 days immediately after you begin to move the property there. During the time the residence premises is under construction by or for the insured, our limit of liability for personal property other than on the residence premises shall be equal to the amount specified for Coverage C. Our total limit shall not exceed the policy limit for Coverage C in any one loss. 2. At your request we cover: a. personal property owned by others while the property is on that part of the residence premises occupied exclusively by any insured; b. personal property owned by a guest or a residence employee, while the property is at any residence occupied by any insured. 3. We cover: a. motorized land vehicles not subject to motor vehicle registration or licensed for road use and used solely to service the residence premises; b. disassembled parts of a motorized land vehicle while located on the residence premises; c. golf carts; d. vehicles designed for the handicapped and not licensed for road use; and e. devices or instruments for the transmitting, recording, receiving or reproduction of sound or pictures, which are not permanently installed in a motorized land vehicle. 4. The following groups of personal property are covered only up to the special limit shown. The special limit is the total amount available for that group for any one loss and does not increase the Coverage C limit. a. $250 on money, pre-paid cards or passes, monetary value carried on electronic chip or magnetic cards, bank notes, bullion, gold other than goldware, silver other than silverware and platinum. b. $3,000 on rare coins and currency, medals, stamps, trading cards and comic books, including any of these that are part of a collection. c. $1,500 on securities, debit cards, checks, cashier’s checks, traveler’s checks, money orders and other negotiable instruments, accounts, deeds, evidences of debt, letters of credit, notes other than bank notes, manuscripts, passports, tickets, personal documents, and records or data. This dollar limit applies to these categories regardless of the medium (such as paper or computer software) on which the material exists. This limit includes the cost to research, replace or restore the material from the lost or damaged medium. d. $1,500 on watercraft, including their trailers, furnishings, equipment and outboard motors. e. $1,500 on trailers not used with watercraft. **** REPRINTED FROM THE ARCHIVE. THE ORIGINAL TRANSACTION MAY INCLUDE ADDITIONAL FORMS **** CHO-6004/EP 11/99 - 2 - f. $1,500 on any one article, but not more than $3,000 in the aggregate for loss by theft of jewelry, watches, furs, precious and semiprecious stones. g. $3,000 for loss by theft of silverware, silver-plated ware, goldware, gold-plated ware and pewterware. Silverware, goldware and pewterware include: (1) plateware, flatware, hollowware, tea sets, trays, trophies and the like; (2) other utilitarian items made of or including silver or gold; and (3) all items of pewterware. h. $5,000 on business property, not excluded elsewhere, while located on the residence premises. i. $1,000 on business property, not excluded elsewhere, while located away from the residence premises. j. $200 on tapes, records, discs or other media in a motor vehicle or other motorized land conveyance on or away from the residence premises. k. $5,000 on any one article, but not more than $10,000 in the aggregate, for loss by theft of any rug, carpet (except wall-to-wall carpet), tapestry, wall-hanging or other similar article. l. $2,000 on grave markers. PERSONAL PROPERTY WE DO NOT COVER 1. Articles separately described and specifically insured, regardless of insured limit, in this or any other insurance. 2. Animals, birds or fish. 3. Motorized land vehicles subject to motor vehicle registration or licensed for road use, including their equipment and accessories while in or upon the vehicle. 4. Any device or instrument, including any accessories or antennas, for the transmitting, recording, receiving or reproduction of sound or pictures which are permanently installed in a motor vehicle. 5. Aircraft, including disassembled parts of aircraft. This exclusion does not apply to model aircraft. Any aircraft designed for carrying persons or cargo is not a model aircraft. 6. Property of roomers, boarders and other tenants not related to any insured. 7. Property in a location regularly rented or held for rental to others by any insured; but this exclusion does not apply to property of an insured in a sleeping room rented to others by an insured on the residence premises. 8. Property, away from the residence premises, rented or held for rental to others. 9. Business property or merchandise: a. in storage; b. held as a sample; or c. held for sale or delivery after sale. 10. Business documents, records or data regardless of the medium on which they exist. However, we do cover the cost of blank recording or storage media, and of pre-recorded computer programs available on the retail market. PERSONAL PROPERTY LOSSES WE COVER We cover accidental direct physical loss to property described in Coverage C — Personal Property caused by a peril listed below except as limited or excluded. 1. Fire or lightning. 2. Windstorm or hail. This peril does not include loss to the property contained in a building caused by rain, snow, sleet, sand or dust unless the direct force of wind or hail damages the building causing an opening in a roof or wall and the rain, snow, sleet, sand or dust enters through this opening. **** REPRINTED FROM THE ARCHIVE. THE ORIGINAL TRANSACTION MAY INCLUDE ADDITIONAL FORMS **** CHO-6004/EP 11/99 - 3 - This peril includes loss to watercraft and their trailers, furnishings, equipment, and outboard motors, only while inside a building with: a. continuous walls on all sides extending from ground level to the roof; b. doors and windows in the walls at various locations; and c. a continuous roof sheltering all areas within the wall perimeter. 3. Explosion. 4. Riot or civil commotion. 5. Aircraft, including self-propelled missiles and spacecraft. 6. Vehicles, meaning impact by a vehicle. 7. Smoke, meaning sudden and accidental damage from smoke. This peril does not include loss caused by smoke from agricultural smudging or industrial operations, such as slash burns. 8. Vandalism or malicious mischief. 9. Theft, including attempted theft and loss of property from a known location when it is likely that the property has been stolen. This peril does not include loss caused by theft: a. committed by any insured or by any other person regularly residing on the insured location; b. in, to or from a dwelling under construction, or of materials and supplies for use in the construction until the dwelling is completed and occupied; or c. from that part of a residence premises rented by any insured to other than an insured. This peril does not include loss caused by theft that occurs away from the residence premises of property while at any other residence owned, rented to, or occupied by any insured, except while an insured is temporarily residing there. Property of a student who is an insured is covered while at a residence away from home. 10. Falling objects. This peril does not include loss to property contained in a building unless the roof or an outside wall of the building is first damaged by a falling object. Damage to the falling object itself is not included. 11. Weight of ice, snow or sleet which causes damage to property contained in a building. 12. Collapse of a building or any part of a building. This peril does not include settling, cracking, shrinking, bulging or expansion. 13. Accidental discharge or overflow of water or steam from within a plumbing, heating, air conditioning or automatic fire protective sprinkler system, or from within a household appliance. This peril does not include loss: a. to the appliance or system from which the water or steam escaped; b. caused by or resulting from freezing except as provided in the peril of freezing below; or c. on the residence premises caused by accidental discharge or overflow which occurs off the residence premises. 14. Sudden and accidental tearing apart, cracking, burning or bulging of a steam or hot water heating system, an air conditioning or automatic fire protective sprinkler system, or an appliance for heating water. We do not cover loss caused by or resulting from freezing under this peril. 15. Freezing of a plumbing, heating, air conditioning or automatic fire protective sprinkler system, or of a household appliance. This peril does not include loss on the residence premises while the dwelling is unoccupied, unless you have used reasonable care to: a. maintain heat in the building; or **** REPRINTED FROM THE ARCHIVE. THE ORIGINAL TRANSACTION MAY INCLUDE ADDITIONAL FORMS **** CHO-6004/EP 11/99 - 4 - b. shut off the water supply and drain the system and appliances of water. 16. Sudden and accidental damage from artificially generated electrical current. 17. Breakage of glass, meaning damage to personal property caused by breakage of glass which is a part of a building on the residence premises. There is no coverage if breakage of glass is caused by earthquake. There is no coverage for loss or damage to the glass. PERSONAL PROPERTY LOSSES WE DO NOT COVER We do not cover loss caused directly or indirectly by any of the following excluded perils. Such loss is excluded regardless of any other cause or event contributing concurrently or in any sequence to the loss: 1. Earth Movement, meaning the sinking, rising, shifting, expanding or contracting of earth, all whether combined with water or not. Earth movement includes but is not limited to earthquake, landslide, mudflow, mudslide, sinkhole, subsidence, erosion or movement resulting from improper compaction, site selection or any other external forces. Earth movement also includes volcanic explosion or lava flow. We do cover direct loss by fire, explosion or theft. 2. Water Damage, meaning: a. flood, surface water, waves, tidal water, tsunami, overflow of a body of water, or spray from any of these, whether or not driven by wind; b. water below the surface of the ground, including water which exerts pressure on, or seeps or leaks through a building, sidewalk, driveway, foundation, swimming pool, hot tub or spa, including their filtration and circulation systems, or other structure; c. water which backs up through sewers or drains originating outside of the residence premises’ plumbing system; or d. water which backs up, overflows or discharges, for any reason, from within a sump pump, sump pump well or any other system designed to remove subsurface water which is drained from the foundation area. Direct loss by fire, explosion or theft resulting from water damage is covered. 3. Power Interruption, meaning the failure of power or other utility service if the failure takes place off the residence premises. If any Personal Property Losses We Cover ensues on the residence premises, we will pay only for the ensuing loss. 4. Neglect, meaning your failure to use all reasonable means to save and preserve property at and after the time of a loss, or when property is endangered. 5. Loss caused directly or indirectly by War, including the following and any consequence of any of the following: a. undeclared war, civil war, insurrection, rebellion, or revolution; b. warlike act by a military force or military personnel; or c. destruction or seizure or use for a military purpose. Discharge of a nuclear weapon shall be deemed a warlike act even if accidental. 6. Nuclear Hazard, meaning nuclear reaction, nuclear radiation, or radioactive contamination, all whether controlled or uncontrolled, and whether or not one of the forces initiating or contributing to these nuclear hazards is covered within the losses we cover in Section I except direct loss by fire resulting from the nuclear hazard is covered. 7. Intentional Loss, meaning any loss arising out of any act committed: a. by or at the direction of any insured; b. with the intent to cause a loss. 8. Acts or Decisions, including the failure to act or decide, of any person, group, organization or governmental body. However, any ensuing loss not excluded is covered. 9. Weather that contributes in any way with a cause or event excluded in this section to produce a loss. However, any ensuing loss not excluded is covered. **** REPRINTED FROM THE ARCHIVE. THE ORIGINAL TRANSACTION MAY INCLUDE ADDITIONAL FORMS **** CHO-6004/EP 11/99 - 5 - 10. Planning, Construction or Maintenance, meaning faulty, inadequate or defective: a. planning, zoning, development, surveying, siting; b. design, specifications, workmanship, repair, construction, renovation, remodeling, grading, compaction; c. materials used in repair, construction, renovation or remodeling; or d. maintenance; of property whether on or off the insured location by any person or organization. However, any ensuing loss not excluded is covered
     
  2. ginster

    ginster Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    5,368
    Likes Received:
    6,698
    I doubt the insurance company would cover claims in this instance.
    Given that there was no permit, there is no knowing if it´s even safe to live there. Who knows if the structure is bearing the weight of yourself and your furniture? Who did the electrics, etc.?
    Also - what happens if anyone "snitches" on them and they have to take the appartment down again (happens regularly here in Germany to anyone willing to take the risk of not getting a building permit beforehand. That or paying a hefty fine)?
     
  3. doublelranch

    doublelranch Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,583
    Likes Received:
    2,527
    Can you contact the county to enquire about codes on enhancing an existing structure? I would think they would at least require a Certificate of Occupancy.
     
    ginster likes this.
  4. manesntails

    manesntails Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2010
    Messages:
    36,485
    Likes Received:
    70,179
    Renter's insurance covers your posessions, not the building. Her building might burn down but I doubt the cause of that would negate your insurance.

    Anyway, ask the Insurance Agent who you got the policy from.
     
    Jim_in_PA, Circle C and Alsosusieq2 like this.
  5. Alsosusieq2

    Alsosusieq2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    14,201
    Likes Received:
    10,412

    ^^ this. I would just get the insurance and ck later. Bella would probably know this, but it only covers your items as far as I know it also. It's not very much money, at least not where I'm at it's not.
     
  6. PyroTekNik333

    PyroTekNik333 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    7,740
    Likes Received:
    12,228
    Check with whoever is selling you the insurance but in general no, you would not be able to make a claim on items in an illegal appt.
    Mostly because what makes it legal is all code stuff that ensures it is safe to inhabit.
    Eta The insurance company wants to know the building isnt at any higher risk of fire, flooding, collapse etc then any other building before they'll put money towards items in that building.
     
    ginster likes this.
  7. manesntails

    manesntails Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2010
    Messages:
    36,485
    Likes Received:
    70,179
    There would have to be a code violation and since it was built by a contractor, that's unlikely.
     
  8. ParkedOut

    ParkedOut Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,991
    Likes Received:
    7,297
    More than likely any claim would be denied. Even though they aren’t technically insuring the building- the liability coverage would be affected.

    It’s considered negligence to build (or improve like plumbing or electricity) without proper permits.
     
    ginster likes this.
  9. clara17

    clara17 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    511
    yeah thats what i thought. I will contact my insurance agency
     
  10. clara17

    clara17 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    511
    haha i contacted my insurance rep and said it wasnt an issue with coverage and i actually ended up getting a lower rate. yay
     
    manesntails and Jim_in_PA like this.

Share This Page