Discussion in 'Horse Breeding' started by daisymay, Apr 14, 2012.
No too weak to be effective.
Equine Repro: I said: "I've had other race horses react badly to it as well, but not to the extent this one horse did, who was highly allergic."
So, no. I am not foolish enough to base a decision on one horse. You quoted and read this^ then asked me that question. Don't forget that every time a drug company comes out with a product, the FIRST place they promote it at is at Universities, and Hospitals. If they can get the Equine (in this instance) Community to stop using the older cheaper drugs and START using their "NEW AND MORE EXPENSIVE" drug, then they make sales and a profit. Vets are now so blind to the older cheaper solutions that new vets don't even know what half of the older drugs are for and "poo-poo' the use of them. Why? Because they didn't use them while in school and were told by the drug companies that the new product was 'better'. That's just the facts of how the drug companies operate. It does NOT mean that the old standby drug is 'NOT as good", like they will tell you; it means they will find a way to 'prove' that their newer, more expensive drug is 'better' to convince you to use it so they can make some big bucks.
For centuries idoine was used and horses were just fine. Now, it's no good; why? Because that's what the drug companies need you to believe so you'll buy their product. That's my opinion. And once you have seen a horse have a really bad reaction to chlorohexadine, you will step back and think about using it on youg horses as well. I've also seen a few idoine reactions........those reactions were NOTHING compared to the chlorhexidine reactions. But, if you've never seen it yet, then you think it's not anything to worry about. That's ok too. I'm just putting it out there so people can decide for THEMSELVES and not just blindly follow the crowd without being fully aware of the hazards of this drug.
That makes no sense. Chlorhexidine isn't any more expensive than Iodine. It's not like people are out there paying hundreds extra to purchase the better product It's not following the crowd blindly, it's following what veternary and reproduction specialists nation-wide recommend.
ER isn't a vet. She's dealt with 700-ish foals. She has experienced this far more than you have. You are also talking about an entirely different situation - gelding incision. Maybe that IS a situation that has a higher reaction rate because of what's going on.
that does NOT mean chlorhexidine is a worse solution than iodine for the umbilicus.
Things change due to research. I for one and super happy when research points out fallacies and irregularities - proven, btw - in old methods, despite how successful they might have been over their time. I know breeders who have been breeding 2-3 foals a year for 20+ years and always use iodine on the umbilicus without any troubles at all. They sure aren't going to change because "if it ain't broke..." That doesn't mean it still doesn't have its issues, which as Kathy pointed out, can be pretty serious - the very medication you use to try to prevent joint ill can be the very thing that causes it because of its caustic nature.
The use of chlorhexidine for navels is such a SMALL part of its overall use that no, it's not about the money.
What you apparently don't understand is the research/review process. Those research articles are peer reviewed and fortunately, those that review those articles do NOT receive any form of recompense for their reviews. IT's not a matter of simply saying - this product works better, therefore you should use it!
For centuries, it was believed that tobacco dewormed horses. For centuries, women had their children in fields. Back in the 60's fluoride added to our drinking water was believed to be a Communist plot. For years, 2 to 3 cc's of prostaglandin was believed necessary to short cycle a mare (and there are STILL those that believe it is necessary for the mare to cramp and sweat in order for the drug to be effective ). There are reasons that research is done the way it is. It is why double blinds are used. It is why independent labs do so much of the research. There will always be dishonest people who wish to attempt to skew the results. Fortunately, that is why peer review is done on research papers that will be published, and the reason that articles are not published in journals without that peer reviewing. Drug companies are not privy to those that are doing the reviewing, so your argument is specious with regards to most peer reviewed research. There are often valid reasons why things that were used for decades is found to be maybe not as effective! It is also why it takes so much time, energy and money to get a drug approved by the USDA. Because so much research is required!
Chlorhexidine is the active ingredient in several different disinfecting products. And the exact argument you are making could be said of Betadine and iodine. As I stated, we've used the product on probably considerably more than the average horse person/breeder. Reactions have been almost non-existent. Also, your argument is actually fairly common, we find, in people that have been trained one way and just aren't open to the possibility that there MAY be something better out there. Change is scary sometimes . Quite honestly, I think you will find there are a higher percentage of reactions to iodine products than to chlorhexidine. But, if you're happy using iodine products, have at it. People will make their own decisions based on research, logic, and anecdotal experience. You're putting your experience out there, and I'm countering that with our own. I don't accept anything without valid, logical information and preferably with as much research and documentation that is feasibly possible.
FWIW, I've seen bad reactions to a variety of products and drugs. One also has to consider that each animal is an individual and if one choses to make the decision to NOT use a drug simply because of one animals reaction, one would be severely limiting myself and the well being of the animals in our care! Indeed, think of the number of individuals both human AND other species, that are allergic to penicillin! Would you quit using the drug because you saw one individual have a reaction? I know I wouldn't/won't. But, it "does" make me very diligent and aware, and I make sure I have things like epinephrine in my arsenal of drugs "just in case".
I'm obviously not going to change your opinion, and that's fine. The use of iodine over nothing at all, is certainly preferred. But believe me, it's not some huge drug company conspiracy . And, I have no doubt, in time, there will be a different product that will have better results. That's the advantage of research and we are always looking for a better "mouse trap". Some of the research is useful, some just not applicable or practical, some just plain weird. But truly...unless the research is funded specifically by a particular company, using in house research, it would be unusual for it to be "tainted". Does that make sense?
Good luck and happy foaling!
Hi I found some called dermachlor 4 percent I ended up buying it as I couldn't find anything else. It's a gal so I really hope it would be ok. Please let me know if it will work. The directions say it needs rinsed off for a scrub.
It comes as both a scrub and a solution, so you'd need to be sure you got the solution. Think of Betadine scrub vs. Betadine solution. One is soapy and needs to be rinsed off, the other is used to disinfect. If it's the solution, it'll work just fine . Good luck!
Dang, it says scrub, so what can I do with a gal of this then, can't take it back.thanks for your help
I'm not well versed in the use of Chlorhex in horses, but I have worked for years as a small animal vet tech and in the vet's experience and from the many lectures I've attended the Chlorhex is much prefered for disinfecting. It kills the bad bacteria without stripping the "good" bacteria and irritating the skin. It is very effective yet it is considered the most gentle disinfectant. It is even considered safe to flush out the abdominal cavity and leave inside the body during surgery. I have never seen an animal have any kind of reaction and every animal undergoing any kind of surgical procedure is prepped with Chlorhex solution and scrub. It is used to flush out the animals mouth after a dental prophy or extractions, and there are even products that contain Chlorhex that you add into your pet's water to kill bacteria in the mouth from causing tartar and calculus from developing. The iodine is so much more obviously irritating, and not any more effective, so i would see no use in using it.
Separate names with a comma.