Perspectives and Horses Behavior | Take This Thread With A Salt Block

Discussion in 'Horse Chat' started by Pluffix, Jul 16, 2017 at 5:56 AM.

  1. slc

    slc Senior Member

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    A friend of mine was riding and had left her barn door open. The horse took off and ran into the barn, and she fell on the concrete, on her head.

    She then developed 'Jacksonian March' seizures. They start in your little toe, and work their way up to every part of your body, and then you have a whole body seizure.

    That's when I got very diligent about wearing a helmet.

    I was working with a horse some months ago and he knocked me over. I hit the ground really hard. I 'tasted the rainbow' (you do get kind of a taste in your mouth).

    And I stood up and walked away. I would have had a whole lot more if I didn't have the helmet on.

    At the race track, people have to have their helmet on before they even go into the barn area. Everybody has to wear one, I'm told. Most of the employees at the track drive into the parking lot with their helmets already on.

    As far as I am concerned, wearing a helmet when leading horses around and working with them is a real fine idea.

    Rick Gore's irrational blab about wearing a helmet causing people to do stupid stuff...that's nuts, but just plain irrational.
     
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  2. D_BaldStockings

    D_BaldStockings Senior Member

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  3. D_BaldStockings

    D_BaldStockings Senior Member

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    Here is an experiment for you:

    get a white grocery bag.

    find a puppy and a youngish horse

    Standing about 15 feet away...
    Shake the bag in front of the puppy.
    Shake the bag in front of the horse

    Puppies will normally investigate or grab the bag. Because they are predators.
    Horses will normally spook and run from the bag
    (you need to be 15 ft away because if you are too close a threatened horses will defend itself usually with a kick - those are dangerous)

    The horse's first line of defense is to run away/avoid contact. This means they are all hard wired to spook, shy, bolt and if cornered or really frightened kick strike, bite and run the threat over to reach an escape route. Devil (or lion) take the hindermost in the herd.
    Act first, think later - maybe.

    Other prey animals may have different defenses, such as going down holes, freezing in place, rolling into a defensive ball, forming a circle with horn out towards the predators, etc.

    Training substitutes instinctive behaviors for learned behaviors useful to humans. But novel situations can trigger the instincts.

    Horses are more dangerous than dogs due to their size and power; they are more dangerous due to the fact that we ride them and drive them: the horse that spooks off a cliff takes the rider with them. The horse that misjudges the height of the tree limb or the width of the barn door slams the rider into it with a force the rider could never reach on their own 2 feet. The horse that slips and falls on the muddy ground could easily crush the rider's leg landing on it.

    The rider needs to be the 'brains' of the pair, but the horse needs to be the 'speed of reaction' of the pair. People can't do the things they do with horses without the horse. And most horses would never do what they can do with riders if unridden.


    Dogs are a whole 'nother thing. And there are better role models than Cesar; but that's another thread.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 12:42 PM
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  4. equinitis

    equinitis Senior Member

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    Watch some trainers. Do you have an interest in any specific discipline? Find trainers who are successful in that/those disciplines and watch them. You will likely see some consistent things even across widely different disciplines but I bet you will also see some things that are specific to just that trainer.

    There are similarities in training different species but those similarities are mostly related to consistency, in my opinion. Consistency with reward, correction, encouragement, etc. Consistency with fairness and firmness. The difference, from animal to animal as well as species to species, is the types and amounts of those things. Equines, full siblings even, have different response, or different degrees of response, to the same stimulus. They are all individuals. They all require individualized training and handling. They are all predictable in that they are entirely unpredictable! Animals are thinking and feeling beings. The mistakes come when a person believes animals think and express emotion the same way humans do or when they see one way to do something and think that way will work all of the time with all of the animals of that species.
     
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  5. D_BaldStockings

    D_BaldStockings Senior Member

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    Ooops, just gave you the intro
     
  6. Pluffix

    Pluffix Full Member

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    SLC I don't know why you perceive me to be arguing with you. Im sorry that you do.

    I am looking around those unnecessary "stop arguing with us" tidbits and reading the information itself, though. So don't think I'm ignoring you.

    I don't have any more questions. The information was helpful, though it's incomplete without first hand knowledge which I'll be getting this weekend.

    Applying it in person will cement things.

    Learning stuff and having nothing to apply it to is why I forgot most of this before. So seriously chill @the people with no chill. @the people with helpful info with or without chill (nearly everyone) thanks.

    c:
     
  7. slc

    slc Senior Member

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    You can't learn anything from just talking to people or reading as a comparison between your post last year and now shows. I mean you personally :) can't. Some people can, you can't. You need to get on a horse and just do what you're told by the instructor without ruminating over it and hopefully...without arguing with the instructor constantly. I do wish your instructor peace and lots of deep breaths.
     
  8. Bakkir

    Bakkir Senior Member

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    Slc this girl won't learn until reality hits her in the face. Some people just have to learn the hard way. Her interest in horses is all theoretical. She may hate it irl.

    I pray to God she has a good teacher for her real lessons, if she actually has any.
     
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  9. Pluffix

    Pluffix Full Member

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    He and I already met and he finds me quite a lot more intelligent than you seem to :/ I'd even go as far as to say "impressed."

    I don't argue. I haven't argued. I ask questions. I give counter examples to make sure all doubt is out of mind. Then I move on.

    I'm sorry if in the past I ignored you but you did and kinda still do come off as unnecessarily rude. Just now I have more grains of salt to take you with ;)

    Poking aside.

    I honestly would think you're a troll if you weren't so well liked in the community. If only you shared information without goading, but heck. Nobodies perfect.

    Anyhoo TLDR you're smart but unnecessarily rude. Thanks.
     
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  10. D_BaldStockings

    D_BaldStockings Senior Member

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    If you are a reader, here are 3 very good books - yes, they are old. From the days when the cavalry often produced riding instructors. Instructors like Harry de Leyer, the man who pulled Snowman off a meat truck.

    All often available on Amazon or Ebay

    Waldemar Seunig: Horsemanship
    Alois Podhajsky: Complete Training of Horse and Rider
    Vladimir Littauer: Common Sense Horsemanship (available as free downloads)


    There are good books by Western riders, too. I am not so familiar with those.
    Some books (maybe most) assume one has the ability to read a horse and react accordingly.
    Until one gains that ability, it is difficult to find the 'right ' level of firmness and subtlety for each individual.

    We all start somewhere... keep going.
    Best -
     
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