Only Oats? Maybe

Discussion in 'Horse Health' started by LoveTrail, Oct 23, 2017.

  1. tlwidener

    tlwidener Senior Member

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    I have thought for years that Foxy is an IR horse. I think this has been an ongoing problem for years.. and the only problem. I would be surprised if he had any allergies or PSSM. I think this is his issue and has been for forever. Equine Endocrine Diseases: The Basics | AAEP

    He is always looking too fat IMO. But... that seems to be a theme with show horses, especially AQHA show horses. He's always had a cresty neck. He doesn't look fat compared to other show horses, but he is fat and has been for awhile.

    I've got the same kind of "fat" with Coal. Show people say he looks good, but he's FAT.

    With Coal, we really struggle. I think I've told you what has worked for him in the past ... but just in case: feed him by weight, not volume. He gets 1.5%-2% of his weight in forage, and if he's getting grass hay it has to be tested low NSC or soaked. It is easier for me to feed alfalfa, because then I'm not worrying about NSC. He gets fed in a slow feeder hay net. IF he's on pasture he's wearing a grazing muzzle. He can have a ration balancer, but it has to be soy free. I used to keep him on Equipride. I have also had good results keeping him on timothy or alfalfa pellets with a loose vitamin/ mineral on top. Chromium supplements help; I like Quiessence. Lots of walking in addition to regular work outs. I also add flax to combat inflammation.

    As Coal has aged it has become less of a problem. I don't know if that is common for everyone. He's now able to be out on pasture without a muzzle (our grass is not that good this year though; it is dry.) He seems more able to handle soy and is now on Nutrena Topline Empower Balance with a little of Renew Gold. He's not getting ridden regularly; he's on vacation. If we were trying to show we'd be back to dry lots, and weighing his feed and slow feeders and lots of walking. Right now he looks out of condition, but he's not fat.

    You need to be real careful with joint injections with a horse with high ACTH levels. Talk to your vet about this. I was going to have Coal's hocks done last year and decided against it because of his history with metabolic issues.

    I would not feed Foxy oats.
     
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  2. Circle C

    Circle C Senior Member

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    They use corn to flush their systems in between batches. That's usually why you will find corn in some of your bags. I got corn in my TC once and they replaced the bags right away. I would take this horse off grain completely and go with the Dynamite system. A friend of mine sells their products and she just posted pics of her horses on grain-free diets. They look great.
     
  3. LoveTrail

    LoveTrail Senior Member

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    I think he was pre IR until 2013 when I moved to that barn and he had his first major issues. In that case he actually did get super fat. He didn't get an obvious crest until last year even more so than that April 2017 photo just never took a photo of , but had a fat under side neck sometimes. EOC gave him that. Last year he had the major IR issue that wasn't figured out at the time, but thankfully I had figured out corn was an issue and switched him to half alfalfa and half grass hay. Made it better, but the grass hay it turns out was still an issue.

    My vet back in maybe 2010 thought IR at the time when he first went on a corn grain, but the thyroid medicine they give to horses had no affect at the time. Then in 2011 when he went to non corn grain my vet just said he looked great.

    Foxy has had numerous injections over the years for his left front foot that he tore the deep flexor with no issue and Dex is no issue either. But, now that his diet is changing, he may never had needed most of his injections in the first place. He is moving freer than he has since 2011 at that one barn that he did so well at.

    I won't ever put him on oats again, I brought his own TC Senior at Vegas and Scottsdale since Bear only feeds oats, and it always will have corn in it at my barn. The barn has goes through a lot and it still has corn. I showed a friend the other day the corn.

    Only his insulin is high. All the other tests he was normal, glucose, T4 and ACTH. Another reason the vet wants to retest. I still think he will be IR, but most likely not as severe as it seems.

    I still might test him for PSSM1, but I never felt he was PSSM2 because they get really worse over time and he hasn't done that. And diet did help him because of his IR which is more of a PSSM1 diet than a PSSM2 diet.

    He will break out in hives with Purina Ultium and Safe Choice Original because they are heavily corn based. Read though that horses that get rain rot it is a diet issue. So hard to say for sure. Definitely corn is an issue no matter what for him.

    His hives from Safe Choice, you can also see his atrophy from it too.
    [video]

    This was him at that barn May 2012. Also remember he is Impressive bred and they do have a big build in the first place.

    May2012.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
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  4. LoveTrail

    LoveTrail Senior Member

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    So been helping other friends to get their horses off a corn diet that are having issues. One was starting a crest too and a huge neck similar to my friend's horse that got laminitis after being injected. Horse was put on those oats with corn without telling the owner. Horse was a train wreck at the novice championships. Took her off of it and the horse was back to normal except for her neck in just a few days. Needed the chiro too because the horse was so wound up tight from all that sugar and starch.

    The other horse not only did we change him to TC Senior, but at the same time I had her take him off of previcox that he was getting that was supposed to make him sound, but he was still off. Since he was going to see a vet for his attitude issues and soundness I told her he needed to be off of it to show his normal state so the vet could do a proper lameness exam which won't be until Friday. Today after just a week on TC Senior she put him in turnout and he was sound and less spooky. He body condition looked better too.

    This is the one that had an obvious crest at the Vegas show last month.

    Shane Rux Photography > AQHA LEVEL 1 CHAMPIONSHIPS WEST 2018 > SHOWMANSHIP > ROOKIE AM SHOWMANSHIP > 615 MEETCHA IN LIL ROCK
     
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  5. LoveTrail

    LoveTrail Senior Member

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    My friend's horse that was put on oats is doing great now on TC Senior.

    And another friend who also put her horse on TC Senior recently said her horse is feeling so much better. And is finally shedding her coat after having one for at least the last three years without ever shedding the whole winter coat when she shouldn't have had one in the first place being under lights in a heated barn.

    Now for Foxy's update. He is doing so well. We are now without pads. Kept on getting abscesses every time we had mud so took them off because my farrier said he was ready for going padless for the first time in nearly ten years. Went to a show last weekend and picked up eight AQHA points, four circuits in Am Performance Geldings, Open Performance Geldings, Select Showmanship and Senior Trail, won both days under all three judges. He is so smooth to ride now. And so chill. My friends all noticed the changes in him. I also just noticed this photo I had to take of him by the lilacs shows his crest going down.

    Now that I know he is Insulin Resistant I now ride him longer and take him out sooner to show. Read those first 15 minutes of walking are very good to bring the sugar down in an IR horse. I always coddled him because of his issues not realizing I was making them worse and not better. And given his feet are better and he is now so chill am actually thinking of maybe trying to trail ride him. We have a trail across the street from our barn. FoxyLilacsMay182018.jpg
     
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  6. Alsosusieq2

    Alsosusieq2 Senior Member

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    He's looking very good, he actually looks a little better. Maybe it's just I've not seen a photo of him in awhile. You could see yourself in his coat. :ROFLMAO:
     
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  7. LoveTrail

    LoveTrail Senior Member

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    Yeah, until you compare photos you don't realize how much he has really changed, good and bad over the years.
     
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  8. waresbear

    waresbear Senior Member

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    I switch from expensive grains to just bit of oats and ground flax as to make it appetizing when I add their supplements. Taking them off hard feed and just giving a token amount of oats didn't affect them all. They still look great, no problems, best is I save about $40 a month eliminating the expensive grains.
     
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  9. LoveTrail

    LoveTrail Senior Member

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    I can't give him oats at my barn because of the corn in it. Plus now with his IR oats is a bad for him being so high in NSC, 54% just by itself let alone corn, 73%, added to it. Triple Crown Senior is 11.7% and am trying Triple Crown Ration Balancer too, 9.7%, He doesn't like it as much, but is starting to eat it now. Also give him alfalfa pellets, 9%, as a snack at shows over night. He eats that slower than plain alfalfa hay.

    Also, I don't give him much grain, he eats maybe a bag a month.

    This is a great table for figuring out NSC. https://www.southernstates.com/docs/eq/0405_mp_carbtables.pdf
     
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  10. LoveTrail

    LoveTrail Senior Member

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    Got his insulin and glucose results back from retesting him May 30.

    His numbers from March 28, 2018 were 108 glucose and 37.4 insulin.
    While his numbers for May 30, 2018 were 88 glucose and 17.3 insulin.

    So have cut his insulin number more than half in two months. Goal is 10 to be normal.

    I took a photo that day to show how he looked before the test. FoxyMay302018headturn.jpg
     
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