I think I'm the problem with both of my geldings. Why? Because they now have the same "problem." And the only common denominator between the two is me. Cairo, TB gelding approx 6-8 years old, had 90 days training with someone else last year. I had a more experienced rider put another 10 rides on him this summer for me. She hasn't been over since mid-August. I can not seem to get him to lunge clock-wise. It's a battle. We have a saddle issue which I thought was the cause but it has not improved. He's now difficult to catch. He's still okay to ride when I do get to that point. Ralph, draftx gelding approx 5-6 years old, no history, supposed to be broke to ride, a former kid's camp horse. I have trouble seeing this pushy 16.3hh horse around children, but anyway. He's taken everything I've thrown at him in stride. The rider I hired did some groundwork and was also thinking he was broke once upon a time. He's no longer super pushy, he's now easy to catch and he follows me like a puppy. But like Cairo, he will not lunge clock-wise. I have never ridden him, we're working up to that. He lets me tack him up and lean across and all I get is a raised head and flicking ears. What could I be doing wrong? What sort of things should I take a step back to look at? Cairo has been my horse since May 2016. And now when I work with Ralph, on some level his behavior is now eerily similar to Cairo (outside of one is an athletic sport horse and the other a lazy buddy sour draft horse). Both follow me around an arena, I don't need a lead rope to get them to back up, trot, and turn on the forehand. Just looking for outside ideas. I was working with Ralph last night and he did some things I've never had him do until I realized Cairo does the same things. So I've now "trained" my horses to be my horses and we're obviously having communication issues. The hired rider does not have these lunging issues. For an FYI, long story short, we relocated, I was in a serious car crash with serious injuries, my horses have more or less not been worked in about a year by me and I finally got my motivation back (there's various threads about all of the above).