Hello New horse owner here.

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by Mountainmamma, Nov 12, 2018.

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What would you do if in our situation?

Poll closed Nov 22, 2018.
  1. Take it as a lesson and move on

    4 vote(s)
    80.0%
  2. Expect the old owner to make this right

    1 vote(s)
    20.0%
  3. Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Mountainmamma

    Mountainmamma Registered

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    Hello fellow horse people.
    My family and I are new to the horse owner world and I would love to share our story so far and get feed back on some questions I have.

    Before deciding to buy our first horse we bought books and found a trainer. We took lessons for a year learning what we could about riding and owning horses. Our trainer finally thought we were ready and we started the surch. We found several horses that were worth looking at the first hand full ended up not being quite right. But then we found my mare "luna" she is perfict supper gentle and sweet and we had a bond almost instantly. She has been happy with us here ever since arriving on our mountain ranch.
    After finding my mare we still needed to find a horse for my partner, we once again looked at several before finding the one we thought. We went and looked at this guelding with our trainer. Our trainer and my partner both rode the horse to make sure it was safe and what we were looking for. He seemed ideal he was calm, he did not seem to get agitated at any thing and most of all seemed like a quiet easy going trail horse.
    So we went ahead with bringing this guy home. When he got here there were no real arguments between him and my mare all seemed like it was the perfect fit. When we went to try to have our first ride on him at our place a few days latter. We got him all saddled up and watched for any signs that there was a saddle fit issue or any agitation in the horse. We did not see any thing. After my partner get in to the saddle and asked nicely to walk on with no warning at all he he bucked and bolted off, then not more than a min latter returning to where my mare was tied at ( near where he bucked and bolted from). My partner got pretty badly injured with 8 ribs broken in several spots and bad concussion and a broken shoulder blade and punctured lung. He had to be taken by helicopter to hospital and spent two weeks in the hospital and have surgery. When the accident happened i let our trainer know what happened. She could not believe it and us being new. We did not know what to think we thought maybe it was a improper saddle fit issue that we missed signs of. Our trainer said she would come out and put a ride on him at some point and check things out. Latter with a different saddle after working with the horse more and giving him more time to adjust. This saddle was and even better fit and trainer thought so to. All should have been fine. It was not once again this horse have no signs of any issues or agitation he was alert but not showing signs of being possibly dangerous. Our trainer got on him and all seemed good. Next thing we know with no warning he bucked and bolted and kept bucking till he finally dumped our trainer.( Luckily she did not get hurt.) And once again he calmly returned right to where my mare was at. My trained decided it has got to be some thing with my mare. We are thinking he was fixed to late in life or some thing we are not sure what thw issue is but he is unpreductalbe and unsafe for us. She feels awful about the situation and all that has happened. The old owner won't talk with us but our trainer he will. At first when my partner got hurt by this horse he offered to our trainer to help us find a different horse and take this one back but then latter told us no I will help you find a new horse and I have one for you but you have to buy that one from me and we have to sell this one. After our trainer got bucked hard off and saw for her self what he does here. She contacted him again and said he needs to make this right suposidly he is but he is out of the state for more than a month and he still has not really comunicated with us.

    Our trainer promises to us this will get fixed and she will do what she can to make it right. But I guess I am having a hard time trusting that it will be made right. We bought this horse thinking it was one thing and in all reality here it is not. Should we expect this guy to actually take this horse back and give us our money back or is this just part of the risk you take when buying a horse?

    Just feeling a bit lost and so many questions running through my mind.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
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  2. bellalou

    bellalou Senior Member

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    Unless there is something in your purchase agreement that offers a guarantee of safety or temperament (not likely), I'd take it as a lesson and move on.

    Your trainer should know that new horse owners especially should arrange to take a horse on a trial basis and should only ride under supervision until the horse is deemed to be a good fit. That is what you should do in future.

    It's impossible to say what this horse's issue may be from your post. When you sell him, you should be completely up front about what happened. I'd suggest approaching trainers and see if they want to take him on to retrain. Don't expect to get your money back in the sale.

    In future:

    1. When you look at a horse for sale, make sure you handle it on the ground, groom and saddle it, pick up feet, etc. For me, getting somewhere and finding a horse saddled and ready is a red flag. I want to know what he's like all around.

    2. Get a pre-purchase veterinary exam.

    3. Ask to take the horse on a trial basis. I would personally suggest either keeping it at the trainer's while you assess the fit with her or not riding without the trainer at your home to supervise.

    4. If your trainer is not suggesting or telling you any of this, look for another trainer. I'm not real impressed with her anyway if she's telling you that the problem is "something to do with the mare" and that maybe he "got fixed late in life." Any horse that has just bucked someone off will return to its horse friend. That's the nature of horses. They're herd animals.

    I'm sorry your partner got hurt. It sounds like you have tried hard to learn and do things the right way. Keep learning and trying.
     
  3. manesntails

    manesntails Senior Member

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    The problem is probably two fold. First, you saddled him and took him, or TRIED TO take him away from “his“ mare.

    Horses do not know they are gelded and male horses get very attached to mares. This why, old timers like me and those before me, put mares with mares and geldings with geldings.

    Second issue is that there is either something physically wrong with the horse, or your partner did something, or the horse spooked at something it saw behind it, and that caused it to bolt.

    New surroundings can make some horses that are fine being ridden by a stranger in familiar surroundings, become very apprehensive in strange surroundings with a new person, they don't know.

    But, dollars to donuts, it was you took him from his mare.
    Sell him and get another mare. You won't have problems with male bonding then.
     
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  4. Alsosusieq2

    Alsosusieq2 Senior Member

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    I'd try to separate him from the mare stat. There's a strong chance he's buddy sour and worth a shot. Looks like if that doesn't work, you can try selling him or if you're not tight with money hope they help you. Wouldn't count on it, but it might happen. The likelihood is slim to none though on that, so good luck breaking this bud fest up.
     
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  5. Mountainmamma

    Mountainmamma Registered

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    Thank you for your response I think no matter what we will definitely be taking this as a lesson learned. We will also be makeing sure we are responsible in making sure that we are up front with any future possible owners about what we know and have experienced with this horse and our experience level.

    Looking back on the purchase of this horse there were things that we should have been weary of and I think our trainer should have maybe seen as a red flag.

    We have had the vet look at him and no dental issues or health problems.

    We had the farier out the old owner had shoes on this horse and he had some them his self. ( our farier said it was a very crude job so we decided to pull his shoes for now.) But other wise the farier did not see any issues with his feet or legs.

    So I don't know but I know one thing going forward we will be more cautious and hopfuly be able to find a new trainer.

    I thank you for your advice and response.
     
  6. Mountainmamma

    Mountainmamma Registered

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    I am not sure that it is one single thing for sure with this horse. But I know it's far above my and my partners skill level.
    I feel it could be some thing with a response to my mare and being taken away from her, and a combination of us being new or a worrie that there is some other issue that the old owner knew about and did not tell us about. But non of this matter much any more as we just know this is a problem for now we can not handle.

    When we went to see this horse at the old owners place. We had a set date and time to be there. We showed up on time and the guy was not there. Our trainer messaged him and he told the trainer that he was on his way he had taken the horse out for a trail ride. ( this should have been a red flag, looking back on it now.)
    The guy got there and unloaded him and another horse he had out. He saddled up this horse and proceeded to tell us about the trail ride and how the horse did going through tunnels and over bridges and through a small mountain river. He then it on the horse walked and tried him around and over some fallen dead trees. Next out trainer got on him had him walk,trot,and lope. She said she was doing all she could to see if he would get mad and buck. He did nothing. So my partner got on and tried him out. All went good and we looked him over and picked up his feet ect..

    After all that and discussing with out trainer what she thought. We decided to discuss moving forward with buying him. Money, brand inspection, vet check all that. The guy was all in said he could bring the horse to our place that same time just fallow us home and we could pay home when we got there.
    Trainer never said um wait a min here let's low this down and do a trial or let's wait on the vet check ect...

    We let this guy fallow us home unloaded the horse out him in with my mare and stood talking with this guy for a bit and gave him a check for the full amount to buy this horse. ( once again bad move on our part, Dumb move. We trusted all would be ok though since our trainer did not put up any red flags.) She had done so with other horses we had looked at and she also knew we had a mare at home that would be in the same pasture. We were very forward about every thing asking questions and what not with her so we trusted her.

    As soon as the horse got to our place before even being unloaded he would winnie. After the old owner left we kept and eye on them and didn't see any fighting or any thing so took it as a good thing. They were getting along she would nip some times at him and he would move away from her but no fights. Didn't think any thing of how good it was going.

    We let him sit and get used to his new surroundings. We would go out and talk to him or sit and let him get used to us. After a few days all was going good he was relaxed. So we started pulling him out working with him. Letting him get used to more of the property and our handling. We took our time with him any time we would pull him out he would not act out or try to bolt away he would winnie for my mare any time he thought he lost sight of her we did not think any thing of it all seemed good.

    This bucking issue is not a pain problem as we have had him vet checked and we have had the farrier look at him both said he was sound.

    The first time he bucked with my partner it may have been a poor fitting saddle although all looked good from what I had read and the trainer agreed after sending her photos of the fit. We checked before getting completely in the saddle by putting weight in the stirrup. Watching his response closely. He was alert but not showing signs of pain or discomfort we was not tense just aware we were there.

    My partner got into the saddle and had a good seat the horse was quiet. My partner next just early asked him to walk they took to steps and that was it.

    When our trainer came to ride him a few weeks latter to assess what was going on. She did all the same things wegot the horse ready saddled the horse up wile she observed. She said all looked good she checked the saddle her self and made sure he was showing no signs of discomfort or pain. All looked good once again. So she got all the way in the saddle and asked him to walk he was doing fine at first we all thought he was not going to do any thing. She walked him around starting away from the pasture where my mare was heading to where she was. The horse did nothing he was perfectly quiet. They then turned around and started to head away from the pasture and my mare. Next thing we all know with no warnings he starts bucking and did not stop till our trainer was off. And as fast as it started it was over and he was just done went back to my mare and stood there just out side the pasture..

    Now no matter what for us it's about being safe, responsible horse owners. We know no matter what this horse just will not work out for us.
     
  7. Mountainmamma

    Mountainmamma Registered

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    Thank you for your response I am not counting on any real help just gonna plan on selling him and figure out the best way to do so wile being fully transparent with any potential buyer about what we have experienced with him so they can make and informed decision about him.
     
  8. manesntails

    manesntails Senior Member

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    When you go to see a horse, you tell the owner you want the horse “totally unhandled thst day“. Otherwise, they ride the fresh out and you think you have one horse, but you get another one when you get it home.

    You tell them yo wnt to catch it in the field yourself. You do not want it even brushed~!! If the horse looks too clean, or is tied up, just go home.

    With horses it is caveat emptor, let the buyer beware. The less you know, the more you need to be wary.

    Just because the horse passed a PPE, does NOT mean nothing's physically wrong with him.
     
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  9. wpgrider

    wpgrider Senior Member

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    I think one of the toughest things about starting up in horses is having knowledgeable people around who you can trust. I wouldn't really give up on the horse but definitely slow things down with him. Sounds like he has you AND your trainer's number.
     
  10. bellalou

    bellalou Senior Member

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    I really appreciate people who can recognize when things are above their skill level and take appropriate action. Good for you!

    One of the sort of counter-intuitive things with horses is the fact that you're actually better off starting in working them right away rather than allowing them time to acclimate. With cats and dogs, they benefit from that kind of time but horses are different. If you get them home and start working with them the next day in some form, it sets them up to expect to work and they accept it as normal. When you wait, they sometimes get fractious, because they've gotten their mind made up that they have this nice, cushy setup where they get to hang around with a friend and eat.

    So I would suggest that, with the next horse, start working with it the day after you get it. You don't have to get on and ride but take the horse out, do ground work, separate him from the other horse in order to work, etc. That way he gets the idea that this is the routine. Horses thrive on routine and the quicker you set it, the better with them.

    I agree with all of this. Go out in the field, see how the horse is to catch, groom, tack up. You can learn so much from the horse on the ground without ever getting on it.
     

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