GollyDolly - New Here Foaling Thread

Discussion in 'Horse Breeding' started by dollymama, May 30, 2016.

  1. dollymama

    dollymama Full Member

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    @Alsosusieq2 Lord with how bad my travel schedule has been I realized I hadn't responded back!

    It's funny the host of the inspection actually contacted me a couple of weeks ago and asked me if we had received our scores back from Oldenburg yet (I didn't hear them announce any so I assumed for my dam it would not matter regardless since she is only going into a Pre Mare book - I was more waiting to read all of the inspection details since they took a lot of notes - I haven't received them yet from Germany). She was telling me she was recently talking about my mare to a friend and said my little old mare did a 180 when she was all bathed and braided and trotting like a star. I wish there were some more conclusive DNA typing testing to do just to see what mom has mixed in her.
     
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  2. dollymama

    dollymama Full Member

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    We are now in October and it floors me that this December Molly will be 18 months old. Where does time go?

    My mom is having a knee replacement in November so I have had to do quite a bit of traveling since September up until her surgery in November. Molly is still with my dressage trainer and they have quite the relationship.

    Molly has learned quite a few things and built upon everything she learned this past spring and summer.

    Interestingly we noticed that in her stall Molly was just a little more... anti-social? (I don't think that is the right word). After being with my dressage trainer, Molly is about as placid as she can be during leading on either side. She understands quite well "whoah" and "shh shhh" to back up. She knows how to tie and cross tie. She is also very patient with getting her feet treated for thrush in her back feet. She can easily be bathed. She gets where her four feet are (when she used to be stopped while leading she would stick out her left fore front and almost step on you as if she didn't figure out where her feet needed to be). She has learned to move away from pressure on both sides. When she is haltered she drops her head into the halter directly, and the same when it is time to take the halter off. She loves being rewarded and I swear she KNOWS when she did a great job and deserves a reward.

    But in her stall, it was as if she decided she no longer needed to "neutral" in the stall and she would be quite crabby if a human dared to be in her space. It would be in a stall she would be nippy, swing her rear end (although no kick - she has learned there are consequences with whips or biting). So this past few weeks, Molly's lessons have also had more focus in the stall as well. Right before my trainer went on vacation she really felt they had a break through where Molly was no longer crabby in the stall but super relaxed - mucking the stall while there? No problem? Cleaning her water buckets? No issues. She may come up and sniff to see what is happening but that is about it. During vacation, the working student only had to do one correction and all was well.

    This week Molly has "graduated" to the role of big sister. A little Friesian filly is being slowly weaned from her mom so Molly is her company. Molly went out with the filly and her mom a couple of weeks prior and she really looks forward to hanging with the filly. I think the little filly is lucky to have another young horse to learn from as well.

    Here is a video - Molly had pushed through while leading a little so the trainer was helping her to remember she could relax and bend.



    And here is a photo from that day.

    IMG_0402 Molly.jpg
     
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  3. manesntails

    manesntails Senior Member

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    If she doesn't want to be caught in the stall, this tells you she is not at all enjoying what is going to follow. Horses learn sequences of events. Human comes into stall, horse is made uncomfortable.

    If it were my horse, I would not keep her where she is being driven to despise being caught. They could be taxing her mentally; aski g too much, pushing her, not giving her time to think when requesting an action, etc.

    Horses DO NOT get crabby in the stall for no reason. This is a HUGE tell that the trainer doesn't read the horse properly and pushes too much.
     
  4. dollymama

    dollymama Full Member

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    She has always had aspects of this since being a tiny little thing - I remember walking into the stall once when she was nursing and she pinned her ears and swung her rear around.

    When it was noticed at my dressage trainers farm it was while her husband was mucking the stall. Then it was noticed more when coming back in from a groom or turnout.

    We hypothesized that perhaps at her previous location (due to the stall mucking) that perhaps whoever used to muck the stalls intimidated/punished her and it was a trigger.

    This trainer is like a school marm (she actually used to be an elementary school teacher earlier in life so perhaps that is why I see her as that) and she immediately read that when Molly came
    to her she was very defensive (she has been a lot that way since being a foal on the ground). It was not until she started living her that I have actually seen her relax, put her head down while even just being in the field or being led-- her bottom neck muscles had developed so much more than the top of her neck from that over defensiveness.

    Here she is actually now known as the sweetest little mare there by other clients and the barn staff. there isn't a here I am going to swing my rear towards you and nip at you any longer.
     
  5. manesntails

    manesntails Senior Member

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    No, she isn't going toget MORE crabby from being corrected for turning her butt, she would, instead, get MORE protective of her butt.

    Whatever.

    You never said she has always been one to turn her butt and pin her ears in the stall, since she was a foal. You said she went FROM being neutral in the stall, to becoming a problem pinning ears and turning her butt. Your horse.
     
  6. Kristal H

    Kristal H Senior Member

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    I've had several horse run through our barn that are just plain Territorial. They want to claim their stall as their stall as their own personal space.
     
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  7. dollymama

    dollymama Full Member

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    Perhaps I am misreading the tone in your text, but there is really no reason to get sarcastic.

    I don't exactly share every single nuance here - this thread is more or less my own journal of Molly. I like to read other growing up threads and catalog my own experiences. I don't expect you to read every single page nor expect that I am going to do an exact log of every single instance.

    As a recap, in the Spring, Molly did go to a different trainer's farm after becoming quite domineering over her own dam and beginning to disrespect all of the humans - especially at feedings. Her dam never really disciplined her - and at 9 months the dam was being bullied by her own filly. After Molly kicked intentionally at the husband of the farm's owner, I made the decision to send her to a trainer as she was quite disrespectful to humans. Due to my work, I could not do more intensive training at home. She did well with the trainer - I brought her home although she couldn't return to the farm where her mom lives due to the barn not being completed so she was with my dressage trainer. The first priorities were to actually get her to be more neutral - perhaps my wording was not the most exact, but we were finding neutrality was still not achieved when she went back to her stall during the day. Although it was subtle until her husband would pick the stall and that was when he noticed her reactions. When the trainer got that feedback, she started to really notice the same behavior when coming in from the night (it is still hot and humid here during the day) or after a groom, etc.

    My local dressage trainer is not overwhelming Molly - in fact she specializes in retraining both scarred horses (one of the biggest projects she has had was with a client who imported a gorgeous horse that was so... mishandled that the horse had to be blindfolded and sedated just to get feet done, receive vaccines, he would try to bite anyone who approached him and would sometimes shake if you raised your voice - he is now the model horse to get re-educated on handling horses as he is incredibly patient but gives you great feedback if you are asking him something that confuses him - she made me take several lessons with him as my "filly" before I was allowed to go back to handling Molly. She is quick to correct anyone handling a horse that gives unclear messages or is not fair.

    With horses, she is also quick to correct and reward a horse. Molly's lessons are not rote repetition - most of her first month back home was spent just hanging out and associating positive things with the trainer, the barn help, my own barn manager and myself (we both do "lessons" since at some point Molly is coming home). She is carefully watched for any changes - as it comes up in training-- when her body carriage was changing (going from giraffe head to more relaxed) her neck was quite sore.. so while the massage therapist was out there, Molly also got a massage to help. She started turning her nose at her orchard/alfalfa hay for only alfalfa - and she was not finishing all of her grain from dinner - so this was quickly brought up with myself and the vet - (after a clean fecal - vet suggested we try a week of gastroguard before investigating further to be conservative before we re-evaluate - Molly hasn't been dropping weight but it was enough of an unexplained change that she wanted to address it immediately).
     
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  8. dollymama

    dollymama Full Member

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    Anyone who has known Molly personally since the beginning - (her vets, barn workers/management) has always said when Molly came out of the womb she was behind the curve on figuring things out (took her a longer time to stand, to nurse) but after 24 hours she had a mind of her own and her poor dam was always just along for the ride...

    It was at three weeks old she pinned her ears at me and kicked out when I entered the stall and she was nursing -

    She has been a joy and a huge challenge. She is super bright, super willing, very brave and bold, very sensitive. a complete polar opposite from her placid, quiet mom.

    One really good thing about her new place is that we have been able to rotate her with some gentle but firm mares (although now she is only going out with the dam and her soon to be weaned filly). Even at her last place, she dominated another yearling - and here she has finally started to not only get the human perspective but also the fellow equine perspective. She learned quickly that it was beyond rude to grab the udder of another mare and try to nurse.. although it took her twice with one mare.. and once with the nursing mare.
     
  9. dollymama

    dollymama Full Member

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    Hope everyone is doing well.

    Things have been progressing really well with Molly. She now stands in cross ties really well, she is learning how to ground tie (she does really well with the short brief durations of it) and she loves going for "trail walks" especially around the pond where she can see some wildlife. She is also a doll for getting trimmed - no more dominance in the stall, she is just... the most content little filly I have seen. One of the other clients told me the other day that while a clinic was being held at the barn Molly was the super star. So many paid her a visit to say hello and everyone kept remarking how sweet she was. Kinda blew my mind *LOL*

    She will be staying with my trainer for longer than I initially anticipated. My barn owner has had to stop progress on her farm due to her mom having to unexpectedly move in with her after a fall (mom needs 24/7 care due to dementia). My guess is she will be at the trainers until Spring since my friend is just not in the place to finish the new pasture and shedrow until mom can go into a facility (unfortunately the home care providers in her area have been really inconsistent and it is causing friction with her family and job).

    I finally received both Molly's and mom's Oldenburg paperwork. The USPS somehow in the handoff between Germany and US lost it, found it, said they delivered it, didn't deliver it - for a month. I was so pleased to see my sweet mare Dolly scored a total score of 7.5. Its a shame she doesnt have a pedigree she would been in the main mare book as a Premium mare. :)

    On the bad news front. I started noticing the past few shoeings that something was just.. odd about mom, Dolly. She would rest her head on my shoulder while I was holding her - which fine she has done that before, but it was the last one that just made me think... is this Dolly or something abnormal? She was placing all of her weight on my shoulder when her hind end was being trimmed. She would go back to normal after being trimmed and shod upfront. I didn't see anything out in the field, but I was just... weirded out. And probably because I will neurotically read - I was wondering if the loss of muscle mass was more than just being an unfit broodmare.

    When the vet came out for shots, I mentioned it to her the weird all of her weight on my shoulder. I gave her a quick jog and the vet felt she saw a hitch on the behind until she moved out. We decided to flex her... when she held the right, her assistant said she felt wobbly and the vet could feel it... so we tried the jog.. and nothing degraded - it was the same. She did some neurological tests (turning her in tight circles, checking her tail, trying to cross her legs) and some things Dolly failed and others she did fine. When walking if I pulled her tail to the left she was like a typical horse.. when pulled to the right.. she could be pulled to the side and slightly stumble. Backing up she was slightly abnormal but not so much that you would immediately be like there is something horrible brewing. The vet said she wanted to test for EPM but that this could also be some pinched nerves from being postpartum (she has had this before and had mares get some acupuncture or an adjustment), could be unfitness. She felt good about Dolly's weight but felt that although she was a little more hollow in the hips and stifles - that this could also be unfitness. Dolly was ataxic but not grossly so and it was not like she was obviously atrophied in her musculature.

    EPM test came back with a titer that was mid-grade positive 1:2000. We are treating with ReBalance. My vet said while she was at UGA it was one of the first treatments due to the economics of it and she saw a 90 day treatment plan work very well for horses. I will be keeping a weekly journal and record her changes and we will be taking another titer within the 90 days. If the ReBalance does not work so well we will move to Prozotil or Marquis.

    Here are some pics

    First is Dolly after getting her Powerpac dose (the fecals came back on the horses higher than desired so my vet recommended a round of Powerpacs for all).

    Second and third is Molly hanging with her little Fresian filly friend and by herself (the filly is about 6 months old)

    And the final is the scoring of my sweet mare from Oldenburg GOV. :)

    dolly mama.jpg molly pants.jpg molly and filly.jpg dolly pants.jpg
     
  10. ginster

    ginster Senior Member

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    I am so sorry to hear about Dolly┬┤s health problems...
    I have no expereince with EPM..what is her prognosis?
    Congrats on her great score, btw.
     
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