Biomechanics...engage the core...lift the back

Discussion in 'Horse Health' started by BluemoonOKy, Mar 9, 2017.

  1. slc

    slc Senior Member

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    It doesn't matter if they're held down or given treats to stay down. Doesn't matter for us. Same difference. Both are a problem. I see that you don't understand this.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
  2. slc

    slc Senior Member

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    Yeah...there isn't really time to do it all well. There's time to do it all poorly, though.

    Look. It doesn't matter if there are any gadgets. If you do something wrong, it doesn't matter how you got the horse to do it; it's still wrong.

    For dressage, this is wrong.

    And yes, in fact, there is a lot wrong with this video.

    I'll explain it later after I go cash my lottery check.

    I won a dollar.
     
  3. Garfield70

    Garfield70 Senior Member

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    Yes, it does. I have used the exactly same thing myself. To escape the pressure at the nape of the neck (a HIGHLY sensitive spot) the horse will lower the head.

    That's more than a little unpleasant for the horse.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
  4. Garfield70

    Garfield70 Senior Member

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    And shovelling out with his hind legs. That's anti-collection.

    And what good does it do when the horses are trained to assume this position artificially by using a mechanical contraption.
     
  5. mooselady

    mooselady Senior Member

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    So your original thoughts were made before watching the video? Interesting
     
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  6. Garfield70

    Garfield70 Senior Member

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    And it is gymnastics for the horse. The main point of gymnastics is that you change the body posture, holding one extreme position for a prolonged time has no training value.

    The result of this is easy to see in the videos, none of the supposedly collected horses is collected. That's a direct result of the over-stretching. It's a bit like a balance. When the front end comes down, the back end has to come up. If you want to bring the hind end more under the body, head and neck have to come up equally, if the head and neck are coming down so much, the hind legs can not swing under the body but have to shovel out behind it. That's the reason why riding in this position for a prolonged time will, while not harming the horse, counteract any attempts to work at collection.
     
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  7. slc

    slc Senior Member

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    I disagree. Riding a dressage horse around like this, at the very least, does harm them. I do believe it does.

    I see horses that are ridden in this low-low-low posture all the time. They just never can progress or improve in their training.

    It also puts a lot of strain on their front legs to do this so much. That's the big thing. They're just not designed to go around with all their weight on their front legs like this. They have ENOUGH weight on their front legs as it is!

    And I speak from experience. I believed this nonsense for a LONG TIME! I changed, because I saw it did not work.

    And yes, Clayton's studies do appear to indicate that the lower the horse's head is, the more weight is transferred onto the front legs. No matter how much anyone thinks they're humping the horse's back or 'engaging' their hind legs.

    The bottom line is that I see no evidence that they are dressage trainers. That's really what the trouble is.

    It's funny that they say stretching is 'classical' equitation(a word people use when they want to differentiate themselves from 'all those other bad dressage trainers').

    LOL. Stretching was NEVER part of 'classical' dressage. It is a relatively new addition. In the 'classical' dressage the horses were never stretched. The trainers would say, 'He can stretch when he's back in his stall - get to work'. But of course they also built up an unbelievable amount of back, neck and hind quarter muscle. Those horses looked like they were wearing futons on their backs. And it wasn't hypertrophied or unnatural muscle. It was smooth and supple muscle -- tons of it. Those horse's legs 'hung from their backs' - it was truly 'a body full of muscles you could play with'.

    And the key is that it really is a BALANCING ACT. The ONLY benefit is in stretching muscles. It does NOT 'engage' or 'collect' or do ANYTHING of all these magical things these types claim. It does one thing: STRETCH THE MUSCLES. It's not something magical! It's not a religion! It's an EXERCISE! That means you do it and go on! And do something else.

    Overdo it, exaggerate it, use 'cues' or tricks instead of correct riding to 'get the horse down', you have no benefit, you simply have a horse off balance. VERY off balance. It's just not a balance that works for dressage. Even training level.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
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  8. slc

    slc Senior Member

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    And...not a correct stretch.
     
  9. slc

    slc Senior Member

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    Oh please. I had already watched the video, I thought it was another one of Will Faeber's stretching evangelism videos - that should tell you something - ALL the trainers like this ALL SAY THE SAME THINGS. Identical. It's like they're reading scripture.

    It doesn't even matter, they all say and teach the same things. Stretching is a religion, lower, lower, and stay there, or destroy your horse's back!!!!!! Kissing spines is from not getting your horse's head down enough! Lower lower lower!

    Which is utter bs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
  10. Garfield70

    Garfield70 Senior Member

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    Tons of riders do all sort of harmful things to horses front legs. Fortunately most of them don't get damaged.

    To me, correct collection to keep the front legs healthy is a myth.
     

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