8.13 to 8.16, two different horses, one dark, one buckskin, both lunged with what I know by the name "neck stretcher" contraption, forcing this extremely low position that they would not naturally assume. Plus, none of the horses they show in collected exercises is collected and I don't agree with that woman that extreme long and low training is particularly good for contact. It doesn't harm it either, but it's simply not a requirement for good contact. What I also don't like is that ALL photos that are shown of horses with their head up and bracing against the rider are with abysmally bad riders. That proves nothing.