Benefit of the doubt? *criticism*

Discussion in 'Horse Chat' started by Heavenly Jumper, Nov 21, 2010.

  1. caballeroranch

    caballeroranch Senior Member

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    Well said, I am still fairly new to this forum and really believe that those of us with experience have a duty to encourage, teach and guide. To me, working with people is no different than working with horses, if I say calm, encouraging and focused, things go well. I understand that we all love horses and want the best for them, and at times it is difficult to see what people are doing or not doing, but I know from my own experiences that a little kindness with the medicine helps! Thanks for the thread!:applaud:
     
  2. Rerider22

    Rerider22 Full Member

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    I know this is an old thread.

    My pet peeve is when people start critiquing people harshly online when 1) they do not know this person 2) do not know the horses 3) have no idea about the farm and location.

    I'd rather help than judge and have them run off afraid to ask questions.
     
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  3. meljean

    meljean Senior Member

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    The thing is, many times we do know the person, from their old threads, or from another forum and several times there are people who actually know the person in real life.

    And some of that criticism, comes from the attitude give from the poster to members responses too. Or the fact that the situation is presented as abcabcabcabcabc....and then when we respond to abc.....the story either is changed to xyzxyz or new information is added that makes it abcdef.
     
  4. hexomega

    hexomega Full Member

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    It's the first time in awhile I've felt comfortable posting on here after one of my adventures in a bad thread. Have you ever had someone say bad things about you, ignored them, but then something happens and you find yourself wondering if they were right? After a certain thread in which people had a lot of things to say about me, I had my first fall in a long time during a clinic (not only did I fall, the horse ended up stepping on my back). I got through everything, but when I got home, I found out I had a fractured rib. Even though the rest of the clinic went well, I made major improvements and my riding had compliments, I kept doubting myself. It actively prevented me from going online and getting advice in a situation where I could have really used it months later. I didn't want to post critique videos, I didn't want to post anything because I actually gave up on the thought of ever becoming a great rider for a little while. So I know that some of the people who were originally against me, if they remembered at all, probably thought "of course she didn't post the videos she promised."

    The past couple of months have been full of confidence building for me. :) Maybe if I actually get someone to record my lesson one of these days, I'll post it online for criticism. Point of this anecdote is that this right here is living proof that mauling a person because you think you know their situation hurts more than it helps.

    I think this is correct to some extent. As more details get added in, the situation gets complicated. Some people are intentionally vague in the OP because they want to keep it as short as possible and get advice. Then people ask for more details, they get more, and a bunch of confusing responses come in. The story changing thing can be annoying, though I've seen it done for legitimate reasons. At times a person can think that this is the story, but they find out new information themselves and see the original details in a new light. They come back to the thread with this information, perhaps word it poorly, and now you have half a dozen people chiming in with "But that's not what you said before."

    Also, someone IRL can come in with good information just as easily as bad information about the OP. What I have seen is that sometimes a person can come in to help, but everyone ignores that person because they were "obviously put up to this." Why are we so ready to believe the slander but not the praise? Why is it easier for us to believe something bad about a person? I was in a situation where it didn't fit any of your criteria but people still jumped on it. At times it can seem reasonable, but more often than not it really isn't a good idea to jump to conclusions with people.

    Forgive me if this wasn't in response to me, but I assume given that you last accused me of being incapable of understanding or explaining, I'll just assume it is. ;) It isn't on me to spend 50x longer writing out every little thing that happened (risking anonymity) just because other people refuse to give me the benefit of the doubt. That's what the thread we are posting in is about. People assume the worst in others online and it's absolutely ridiculous. It's on other people to acknowledge the information in front of them--if they refuse to and insist that their opinion is true even when you say otherwise, the answer is not to continue feeding them little details in hopes of changing their mind. Their mind is made up, no matter what you say. I've seen it happen to me, I've seen it happen to others, and I've been guilty of doing this to people in the past.

    If some people in the thread appear to be on the same page as the OP, but you are not, you don't get to blame the OP for that. If the OP tells you in the most direct way possible why what you're saying doesn't apply, and you flat out ignore it and pretend they didn't say it (note: not deny the validity of their argument, but pretend they never made the argument), that is also on you. And since when has resorting to personal attacks against one's character been a valid way to help someone or solve drama in a thread?
     
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  5. meljean

    meljean Senior Member

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    And this pretty much proved my point that how a poster acts? Determines how they are treated.

    I'm not sure of what points you are trying to make, or exactly what your entire post boils down to.

    So I searched your old threads and found this one here.
    http://myhorseforum.com/threads/517804/

    After going back and reading this thread? And being baffled all over again about your not wanting to post anything too personal for privacy reasons, as well as your ignoring of the sound advice that was given to you in that thread? You proved my point. How a poster gets along, depends on how they act.

    I fail to see how posting enough information about a situation could interfere with "your privacy" issues.

    If you feel this so strongly?

    "Forgive me if this wasn't in response to me, but I assume given that you last accused me of being incapable of understanding or explaining, I'll just assume it is. ;) It isn't on me to spend 50x longer writing out every little thing that happened (risking anonymity) just because other people refuse to give me the benefit of the doubt."

    If you are so worried about your anonymity stay off the 'net would be my thought. And without enough information, or worse information that constantly changes to hide what is really going on, as many of those who wind up in trouble like to do, just how you expect anyone to help, is beyond me.

    In the above referenced thread? You ignored sound advice, from members who were trying to help you and guide you. How that is on them, or us, is beyond me.

    And your word/thought process could be a little more concise.
     
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  6. hexomega

    hexomega Full Member

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    I actually took, followed and thanked people for a lot of the advice they gave.

    Not entirely true.

    There was no more information required than what I said in the thread. The people demanding more were being unrealistic. I said that a job was abusive and I'd rather not talk about it, and people demanded to know how. It was irrelevant. I don't feel it's appropriate to go into details about such things online.

    And this is what this thread is about. People go online sometimes to get a second opinion. I don't have to go around posting everywhere under my professional name. Some issues are delicate (imagine a trainer asking advice about a client) and people can get offended even at the slightest of things. I am very concerned about my anonymity when it concerns a previous employer.

    This is inaccurate.

    I did not. Look at what I said above, and even look at the multiple posts in which I was thanking people.

    Yes it could.

    However, trying to pin the blame of an entire thread on the OP in another thread about giving people the benefit of the doubt so they don't leave and go somewhere worse doesn't really seem to serve any particular purpose. I'm not sure what your goal is here.
     
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  7. silverblu

    silverblu Senior Member+

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    Actually, you can never really know a person just from postings on the wildwildweb. You may know SOME things about that person, from which you ASSUME many more things that may or may not be true. And if you have chosen to dislike said person, your assumptions tend to get downright unfair at times.
     
  8. manesntails

    manesntails Senior Member

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    I agree you can never "actually" as in "intimately as someone who is close to the particular person" know a poster on the internet, but I tell ya. I have been around and around the block. I was a beginner and know pretty much, through those years and years of experience, just where a person is from day 1 when they have to think about which foot goes in the stirrup, right on up to advanced training issues and all that's in between.

    How a post is worded speaks VOLUMES about where the OP, any OP is in their horsemanship. It just can't be denied. The more advanced you are the more you know what is important to include in the post. You will list what you did, horse's reactions, what you're thinking is going on and ask for other's opinions. Now how much you know about horses is RIGHT THERE in BLACK AND WHITE.

    I get so disgusted trying to help a beginner who then changes the story after I post because, IN their MIND, they are not where they actually are in their horsemanship so they are going to determine that your advice can not be true because they know how to ride, or how to train, or how to read their horse properly and >>>>>>here we go with the "you don't know me or my horse" stuff.

    Sorry, but YES I DO because you posted it and since you are posting it and wording it how it's worded you are screaming at the top of your lunges just how much you know,....or don't know. So, no, you definitely reveal a LOT about yourself as a horseman in how you post; enough that I know for sure that someone who was more advanced would never think to post a post worded in that way, asking that question, etc, etc. You just can't hide how much you know or don't know (unless of course, you are trolling and I hope that's not the case when I take the time to answer a post. Answering a post is doing someone a favor for nothing when they disrespect you, change the story and act like you are insulting their intelligence when right there,.. >> there it all is in black and white which is clearly stating where they are in their horsemanship. Kinda makes me want to just let them swing in the wind, ya know.
     
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  9. silverblu

    silverblu Senior Member+

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    But wouldn't you agree the horsemanship is only one aspect of a person? What about if there is nothing of horses involved at all?
     
  10. manesntails

    manesntails Senior Member

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    I wasn't addressing non-horsey situations. In those situations, there are personality types. You can pretty much get the gist of someone's personality after having some dealings with them, but not right at first.
     
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