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aggressive stallion.

Discussion in 'Horse Breeding' started by mcc, Jul 14, 2013.

  1. mcc

    mcc Registered

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    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 21, 2015
  2. Equine Repro

    Equine Repro Senior Member

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    Yes, you can have testosterone levels tested. Unfortunately, testosterone "is" somewhat animal dependent and while you can have some stallions that have a relatively low testosterone level, be incredibly high libido, aggressive animals and vice versa. There are things that can be given that will result in testosterone suppression - essentially chemical castration. But by doing so, you may very well suppress things sufficiently that they don't "recover" from it and essentially remain/become a gelding. If someone is goign to go that route, we strongly suggest freezing them before the process begins as you may have nothing there after the process. And, if you're going to do that, you may as well freeze and geld.

    Stallion AI services is located in the UK. Have you contacted them about possibly freezing him? They are good and competent and Tullis Madsen is certainly approachable and easy to work with.

    And no worries. I'm questioned all the time :D! Often by myself. It's wise to question anyone on the internet! Some come across as much more brilliant than they are. Where are you located in England? I can perhaps suggest some other locations to contact for assistance. My hubby is a Brit and we actually host DEFRA certified courses over there periodically.

    Good luck!
     
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  3. Lopinslow

    Lopinslow Senior Member

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    i never said you should have put him in a field full of mares and breed willy nilly (typical backyard breeder) responsible breeders put a lot of thought into each cross and will even turn away mares (I have turned paying customers away if they were not a good cross)

    what i'm getting at, is for me to keep a stallion intact he needs to be EXCEPTIONAL in MANY ways, and even if he is, i would put a lot of thought into if i want the extra hassle of having a stallion. then, he would be campaigned and proven in the show ring and see if he deserves to keep those fuzzy plums. if not, snip. If he got difficult to handle, SNIP. and when it was time to breed him to a few mares, they would be exceptional mares and if the resulting foals were not really nice, SNIP

    So, i guess i just don't understand the reasoning to keep one intact if he doesn't meet my requirements. too much extra work!

    I hope you can get him figured out, so he can be happy and no one else (horse or human) is injured in the process
     
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  4. mcc

    mcc Registered

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    I agree, you might as well geld if your going to put them through something like that, I would think it would cost a lot more as well?

    I am in Hampshire.

    Thanks for the help guys, if your interested I will keep you updated.
     
  5. beat_it

    beat_it Senior Member+

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    Why don't you just plaing geld him? Yes you enjoy him being a stallion, I get that. I'm glad that you aren't just out to breed horses - that's a very good thing and I give you props for that!! But, why keep him one now? To me, a stallion should only be kept a stallion if they are proven winners at the highest levels of competition. Otherwise that's a whole lot of work just to have a horse that is your pet stallion, no?

    I'm going to be straight up and say just geld him, he's already 10 years old and will probably remain studdy for a longgg time but if you haven't found the right mare to breed him to by now, why not just cut him?
     
  6. JBandRio

    JBandRio Senior Member+

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    This isn't a US site, though it's hosted from the US. There are people here, regular, long-time members, from literally all over the world :)

    Honestly, the more I read, the more I think you should have your stallion collected at a professional stallion station, freeze him, and geld him. That gives you YEARS to decide if you have the right mare to breed to him. He'll be happier, you'll be happier, and you'll still have options.

    so yes, there, I'm saying it - geld him now. He simply does not need to be a stallion on the notion that one day, maybe maybe not, you'll breed him. With frozen semen that will last eons, there's no reason to put the 2 of you through these stresses for the off-chance you'll breed him some day.
     
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  7. mcc

    mcc Registered

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    How would I go about freezing?, any ideas on how much it cost these days?

    All the time I have an entire I wouldn't be able to own a mare, not that I need any more horses lol 6 is enough! If a good quailty mare came along, then I would have to ask the owner to breed, im not sure if they do "stud mares"? like that to stallions?

    I guess we all have different opinions on what makes a stallion worthy of his balls, for me, competitions mean nothing, hes a gypsy cob and MOST of the true gypsy that own these fantastic gypsy cobs would never step foot in a show ring, yet some of the stock are out of this world, not having a competition record doesn't effect their quality at all.

    If it wasn't for the aggression, even though many don't agree on owning a stallion without breeding, I wouldn't have even thought about gelding him, he would have spend the rest of his life entire, if this hadn't have happened so now I am thinking it through.
     
  8. JBandRio

    JBandRio Senior Member+

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    Here's a good page for you to read
    http://www.stallionservices.com/freezing.htm

    I know in some countries it's the exception to geld, rather than the norm. It's not even about keeping them intact for breeding, it's just that gelding isn't done unless there's a medical reason.

    But here, keeping them intact is typically done by back yard breeders (in the very negative context) whose boy is a cool color, or has X famous horse 18 generations back and "it's cool", or, simply because of a macho sense of self-worth and "it's cool to have a stallion". Reputable breeders critically evaluate stallions, both within themselves, and within a reasonably large group of professionals who will even more critically look at him because they haven't the slightest emotional attachment to the horse. Every reputable breeder will say "If I have to ask the question, then he should be gelded", for many reasons, not the least of which is very often just not have the facilities to properly house him. Those who don't have that, but are truly serious about it, send the boys off to be professionally handled/trained/shown.

    Keeping a stallion intact because one might end up with a good enough mare one day isn't fair to the stallion. There are better ways to breed down the road - freeze the stallion and geld him, watch the market for similarly bred stallions (or even full brother) to keep tabs on who's who when you do have a mare, or look for a *mare* with the same breeding as that stallion, full sister even.

    The saying "good stallions make great geldings" is not just some neat-o phrase, it's just a fact. Great stallions make even greater geldings, though some will disagree a bit if they think that the stallion ooomph gives him an extra oomph or presence in the show ring, though that IS debatable. Some argue against that because it's clear for some stallions that the jewels actually make doing certain things uncomfortable, like jumping big.

    So yes, I personally would really recommend looking into freezing him. If you decide the cost of that isn't worth it, then you'll have to ask yourself - is this *stallion* worth it? It looks like you're looking at $575 up front, and then $35/month for storage, though I'm sure that might vary a bit. That seems like a fairly small price to pay, to me anyway :)
     
  9. caudcl01

    caudcl01 Senior Member

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    IMOP, If he's taking chunks out of his pasture mates, he needs separated from those he's biting. The only stallion that was able to be pastured with a gelding became an even better gelding himself. There are reasons most stallions can't be pastured with other males. I have my stallion separate from the others for safety, but he's never isolated. You may have to geld him or separate him. And aggressive stallion can kill his best friend.
     
  10. meljean

    meljean Senior Member

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    A blood workup would be good place to start, there could be so many different things going on internally.

    He could have had a 3rd testicle all along that is now producing testosterone, and putting him over edge now.

    Could be something wrong with another horse that he is reacting too.

    And could be he is just finally showing this too. Does he or do any of the others **********?

    Okay that word is formal word for "playing with himself for self gratification."

    As for stallion turning on human.

    Zan Parr Bar bred stallion at barn back in 90's, was being lunged by the female half of husband/wife training barn. She had worked with him and never had any problems. Until the day he turned and came after her. He knocked her down, knelt on her and was trying to rip her face off by the time the grooms got to them. He almost killed her.

    And could also be something in pasture he is reacting to, plant/drought/rain might be responsible?

    Also, and this is just a thought. Is there ANY chance that someone is slipping him out of there at night and breeding him without you knowing it?

    But honestly, I would geld him, as his behaviors are going to make it harder to work with the others too.
     

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